Friday, 03.14.08
The Wright Problem
Emmanuel Dunand/AFP/Getty Images
Ever since the rise of the religious right, conservative politicians have attempted a delicate two-step with conservative Christianity's more extreme elements, simultaneously welcoming their support and keeping their more outlandish positions at arm's length. Now it's Barack Obama's turn to try the same trick -- except that the extremist in question is the pastor of his church, a spiritual mentor, and the man who married him and baptized his children.
For a time, it looked like the controversy surrounding the Reverend Wright would be confined to his connection to Louis Farrakhan and his Afrocentric gloss on Christianity. But the new video footage takes things a step further: The problem is less that Wright sounds Malcolm X than that he sounds like Jerry Falwell crossed with Ward Churchill, calling down God's vengeance on a corrupt U.S.A., but for leftist instead of right-wing reasons.
So far, Obama has attempted to laugh off Wright's penchant for inflammatory rhetoric, comparing him to "an old uncle who says things I don't always agree with," and suggesting that this is "what happens when you just cherry-pick statements from a guy who had a 40-year career as a pastor." But as Wright's America-bashing gets more airtime -- and as his Obama-boosting sermons put his church's tax exemption at risk -- Obama may have to go further down the road to explicitly disavowing his pastor. His connection to Wright isn't the equivalent of John McCain's going to Liberty University to make nice with Jerry Falwell. It's the equivalent of John McCain taking his wife and children, most Sundays, to Jerry Falwell's church. And the disconnect between Obama's studied moderation and his congregation's radicalism requires more of an explanation than he's offered so far.
In an election when many expected that Mitt Romney's fate would be determined by how he talked (or didn't) about his Mormon faith, it may be Obama whose candidacy ends up riding on how he addresses the relationship between his politics and his church.
Loyalty, not to a faultDaniel Larison admires Obama's politically inexpedient loyalty -- even to a pastor with "dreadful" views. |
Ward Churchill in the pulpitObama is disingenuous for claiming his church is "not that controversial," says Victor Davis Hanson. |
Obama's Willie HortonRoger Simon says Obama chose his church, and his choice will -- and should -- have consequences in the election. |
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I'm sorry but this just pisses me off. For the last few decades we've had conservative Christian leaders and pundits claiming gays are evil, making racist,anti-semitic, xenophobic and sexist comments, all with immunity. And now that a black man speaks his mind it becomes off limits, "scary". Black people have been getting screwed over in this country since it was founded. Most have a profoundly different experience than whites in this country and it just upsets some white people to be reminded of that. Why can't we talk about that? Why can't we say that some of what he's talking about reflects their daily experience?
Where has Obama been for all these years? Certainly, he has attended SOME services and heard SOME of these goofy and racist comments. No one denies this. Why did he not quit the church? Why did he not thoroughly denounce the racist comments right after they happened?
Can anyone imagine the enormous flap in the media if evidence surfaced that McCain kept attending a church year after year in which the minister said the church was "unashamedly white" and preached a "white message" and uttered similar racist nonsence? The roof would fall in!
Lesley,
That is crazy talk from you. 3000 people (Black. White, Latino, Christian, Jew, Hindu, Muslim, people from different countries) were murdered on 9/11. What does that have to do with black experience? Why did Obama's pastor, friend, and mentor say that the victims brought it upon themselves? Do you believe that the U.S. government invented HIV/AIDS to hurt blacks? Well, that is what Obama's pastor believes. Do you believe that god should damn America?
Bill Cosby, John Lewis, and a host of other blacks do talk about black experience everyday. No one is saying this is off limits.
Come on what Jeremiah Wright speaks is nonsense. Your defense of it is even worse.
What this insane pastor said is one thing. Meanwhile what Obama was saying about his pastor is another. From today's WSJ.
*
Meeting with Jewish leaders in Cleveland on Feb. 24, Mr. Obama described Mr. Wright as being like "an old uncle who sometimes will say things that I don't agree with." He rarely mentions the points of disagreement.
Mr. Obama went on to explain Mr. Wright's anti-Zionist statements as being rooted in his anger over the Jewish state's support for South Africa under its previous policy of apartheid. As with his previous claim that his church gave the award to Mr. Farrakhan because of his work with ex-offenders, Mr. Obama appears to have made that up. Mr. Wright's statements denouncing Israel have not been qualified in any way. Mr. Obama nonetheless told the Jewish leaders that the award to Mr. Farrakhan "showed a lack of sensitivity to the Jewish community." That is an understatement.
As for Mr. Wright's repeated comments blaming America for the 9/11 attacks because of what Mr. Wright calls its racist and violent policies, Mr. Obama has said it sounds as if the minister was trying to be "provocative."
Hearing Mr. Wright's venomous and paranoid denunciations of this country, the vast majority of Americans would walk out. Instead, Mr. Obama and his wife Michelle have presumably sat through numerous similar sermons by Mr. Wright.
Indeed, Mr. Obama has described Mr. Wright as his "sounding board" during the two decades he has known him. Mr. Obama has said he found religion through the minister in the 1980s. He joined the church in 1991 and walked down the aisle in a formal commitment of faith.
The title of Mr. Obama's bestseller "The Audacity of Hope" comes from one of Wright's sermons. Mr. Wright is one of the first people Mr. Obama thanked after his election to the Senate in 2004. Mr. Obama consulted Mr. Wright before deciding to run for president. He prayed privately with Mr. Wright before announcing his candidacy last year.
Mr. Obama obviously would not choose to belong to Mr. Wright's church and seek his advice unless he agreed with at least some of his views. In light of Mr. Wright's perspective, Michelle Obama's comment that she feels proud of America for the first time in her adult life makes perfect sense.
Obama is toast! There's NOOOOOO way this guy can ever get elected now. This is golden for the GOP!
Lesley, the "daily experience" you talk about is an experience which, if black America were a separate country, would result in black America being, by far, the richest black country in the world, with a life expentancy and a standard of living far higher than any other black country and higher than most other non-black countries. This results in enormous movement of people from black countries to the U. S., including blacks from Haiti who sail to Florida from Haiti and do not even give a thought to stopping at the People's Paradise of Cuba. The result is found in the lives of people like Obama and Colin Powell, people who have made a great deal of their lives and who did not indulge themselves with the luxury of playing the blame game. The number of blacks per year who leave the U. S. to live in other countries can usually be counted on two hands.
Now, you can keep on keepin' on playing the blame game, or you can enter the world of reality and touch base with facts. It's your choice. I join with everyone in wishing you make the right choice. Best wishes.
Of all the unexpected events of this campaign, this issue is Obama's "test." His political skills, judgment, intelligence, comprehension of the current tenor of American culture, courage, leadership skills, depth of self-reflection, and articulation of his views on race in America, will determine the results.
Lesley: You might feel that way, but Barack did not run his campaign on this message. He ran on a message of reconciliation and hope and post-racial politics.And THAT is why so many people were excited by him and voted for him. Now what are we Obama supporters supposed to believe? I am truly angry that this did not come out before because I would NEVER have voted for him.
Barack is a hypocrite of the worst kind. And to think that he takes his kids to hear such racist rage. Who is he really? What does he really believe? That's the issue here. We really don't know.
Regardless of what else Obama's pastor has said, it is silly to conflate acknowledging that U.S. support of dictators (i.e. state terrorism) in the middle east is partly responsible for 9/11 as controversial. Of course that has to do with it. Bin laden himself has said that U.S. troops in the middle east and support of corrupt oppressive dictatorships was partly why Al Qaeda attacked the U.S. That doesn't make what happened on 9/11 in any way justifiable, it just means we live in a world where our actions have consequences. What should be controversial is being surprised that supporting repressive anti-democratic regimes like Saudia Arabia and Egypt has made people angry at us.
Brad,
What do you think should be the consequences of Obama's contining to attend such a racist, hate-filled church year after year and counting Wright as both his mentor and close adviser? Should they be the same as those that would occur if a white candidate attended year after year a racist, hate-filled church? Any thoughts?
There is no way Obama can be elected in the general election, for many democrats, myself included, will simply never vote for him. We don't pack colliseums to hear him speak, don't show up in the polls, but we do take ourselves to the ballot box every November to vote. He may get Vermont, California and perhaps New York, but McCain will get ALL of the conservative states, Florida, Ohio and Pennsylvannia, probably Jersey, and win the electoral college.
This has nothing to do with Barak's skin color. He seems like a really nice guy. But he surrounds himself with radicals like his wife and Wright, which casts a large question mark on his judgement. Will he similarly cozy up to the president or Iran, and call him "a crazy old coot who's just a teddy bear inside"?
Everyone has a right to freedom of speech, and the black experience has been a tough one in America, no doubt. Many blacks still have emotional baggage from slavery and Jim Crow. I get it. But I simply do not want to see this type of baggage splayed out all over the White House.
I have friends with whom I vehemently disagree about some things.
I doubt whether my minister and I see eye to eye about many issues.
My wife and I disagree with one another on a lot of political issues.
I disagree with Senator Obama on some issues as well.
I still have friends, go to church (occasionally), and am married. And I voted for Senator Obama. Guess I'm a hypocrite all around for not cutting these people from my life because we don't think exactly alike.
True, I think minister Wright's comments are abhorrent--to me, as a white male--but I've never experienced what African Americans have experienced, either.
The problem is that minister Wright comes from the generation of African Americans and feminists who had to fight some pretty tough battles, and who can't seem to move beyond those battles. It's tough to be post-racial or post-feminist if these issues informed and consumed your entire life.
But the only real change, in my opinion, that can happen is when we move beyond the experience of the past into being open to a new experience in the future--an experience that is beyond racism, sexism and other 'isms.'
Naive? Probably. But hopeful just the same.
This is very serious. My view of Obama as a uniter and a moderate is gone.
I am stunned by Wright's comments about September 11th. They are outrageous. Also, he is a strong supporter of Farrakhan.
This is the beginning of the end of the Obama campaign. He is obviously a radical leftist. There can be no excuse for supporting a minister who is a true fanatic. I am just wondering why it took the media this long to find this information.
The issue surrounding The Rev. Wright boils down to this three-part question: What did Senator Obama know, when did he know it, and when and how did he respond?
Words matter. Obamas words his wife words his pastors and his hiding the truth. So much for his new politial and honest change. The word that bests suits him is POLITICIAN like all the the rest runnung in the primaries.
When people say that Wright is Obama's "spiritual advisor", do they bother asking themselves how much spiritual influence actually occurred? Do they imagine that underneath his thoughtful, balanced, rift-healing demeanour, he has in fact been filled with seething racist hatred?
Yes, perhaps at this point Obama needs to cut all ties publicly. But to suggest he has been corrupted by this man of the cloth is an exercise in convenient self-delusion. Obama lives in the thick of things and yet keeps his own counsel. This is why we love him. I admire it.
Is this kind of treatment just going to be reserved for OBAMA, or do we now get to make fun of the OTHER CANDIDATES' churches as well? I guess if someone want to be in politics, he or she has to send the spin doctors out years in advance to vet the church and make sure that it's BORING ENOUGH NOT TO OFFEND ANYBODY! The winners will be the hypocrites who go to church for appearance's sake just to please the public.
What are we going to do for an encore? Send the TV cameras into the candidates' bedrooms to see if they're having the right kind of sex? (...come to think of it, that's already been done...)
If you recall Michelle Obama's recent statement about being ashamed of America, I think you can see the influence Mr. Wright has had on the Obama's. Mr. Obama is of course more subtle, dropping the flag pin, not saluting the national anthem with hand over heart, defending Mr. Wright's clearly racist rants as if he were just a crusty old uncle. If Hillary spent the last 20 years going to KKK meetings, could she convencingly describe the Klan as a misunderstood social club? Obama has sat through 20 years of anit-America and anti-semitic sermons without objection, I hope that's not OK with the rest of the country.
Guilt by association. Awesome.
If you on the right really want to get into this, there are years of crazy statements by John Hagee (who called my church the "Great Whore" of Revelation) and McCain's "spiritual guide" Rod Parsley (who wants us to start a holy war against Islam).
So, yeah, let's start some shit and, by God, the religious right will finally be exposed as an enclave of nutjobs. I've been hoping for an opportunity like this for a long time.
Wondering in the west,
I just read through the NY Times article covering his pastor. The two things that troubled me were his visit to Qadafi and his comment that black people have a deeper understanding of Christianity because of their greater suffering. I don't know what the context of his visit to Qadafi was, why he went or what he did while he traveled there, so I can't fully evaluate it. To my mind, it's stupid for anyone to claim that they have a deeper connection with God than someone else. You can't objectify something as subjective as faith. What else has he said that is racist or anti-american? So, I can't answer your leading question unless you give me more to work with. Educate me!
Who Pastor Wright??? If It walks like a duck,sounds like a duck it must be a duck. A Black Racist with a bad problem of saying the wrong things at the right time to get peoples' attention. Is he what Oprah thinks America needs??? If Obama goes down ion political defeat it will be because of the company he choose to keep. The old saying "If it sounds too good to be true- It must be." That is what Obama and his promises of "Change" seem to be. Change to what Where Pastor Wright will advise our President's every move?? Lenin once said "Promises are like pie crust,made to be broken" One should look closer and think who it is they are really voting for. Not get carried away by slick talk and empty promises.
"Actions speak louder than words." At this point, it doesn't matter what Obama says. The fact that he returned again and again to the same church after hearing sermons like this tells me all I need to know. Remember, it was pointed out earlier that Obama wouldn't salute the flag or the national anthem.... This just make it more clear why. When your words and your actions don't match, it is lying. As much as I distrust the Clinton's, I can't tolerate a bigot of any color.
J. Nickell,
Enough with the theatrics! And you're taking Michelle Obama's comments out of context. She didn't say she was ashamed of America. She said this was the first time that she was really proud of America. Logically, then, before now she was proud of America, but not really proud of America. That is not even close to saying that she was ashamed. As far as the flag pin goes, maybe this'll help you understand why that's such a silly standard: http://talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/180661.php
Jack Kingston, the congressman who's been going around criticizing Obama is shown to be entirely hypocritical. According to the Anti-Defamation league, they haven't found anything antisemitic from Mr. Wright. And your KKK analogy is ridiculuous, Mr. Wright and his church have not spent the past 400 years oppressing white people and lynching them when they felt like it. Give me a break.
Does Senator Obama have the Wright stuff?
I am truly angry that this did not come out before because I would NEVER have voted for him.
Do things not really happen for you until they show up on TV? Wright's radical views have been reported for over a year.
I don't see how he recovers from this.
Imagine it's Clinton or McCain attending a SEGREGATED church for 20 years.....
But let's not forget McCain and the Reverend Rodney Parsley, whom John McCain calls his "spiritual guide."
I've always marvelled at the irony that churches in America seem to be the last strongholds of racism, sexism, homophobia and xenophobia. These forms of prejudice and oppression contradict Christ's teachings as I understand them.
I can see why a lot of Americans, especially white Americans, are disturbed by Obama's connection to Rev. Wright. There shouldn't be this kind of hatred and fear between people whose religion teaches love for one's fellow (wo)man. There should instead be outreach and understanding.
I would encourage people who are disturbed by Wright's comments to visit a black church or read some books on black churches: "The Black Church in America" by Michael Battle gives some insight.
"The Black Church in the African American Experience" is another good one.
I also hope that black churches take this opportunity to do some outreach on their own part and exemplify their Christian beliefs.
Time to start enlightening ourselves.
I think a man who says to love your enemies, who calls for social and economic justice, and who rails against the privilege and power of the dominant social class is very different from Jerry Falwell. Falwell is a hypocritical judgmental person, while Jeremiah Wright is in our time what Jesus was in his time - a man who is willing to speak the truth to power, to afflict the comfortable and comfort the afflicted.
Sorry to respond to myself, but one other thought - Falwell claimed that "America is a Christian nation" and tried to create theocracy in the U.S. He has attempted to bring religious ideas into politics and legislate those religious views to be binding for all, regardless of religion. That is unconstitutional, even if it might be popular among some conservatives. On the other hand, Jeremiah Wright is a pastor who has spoken out boldly about the problems that come about when you marginalize, minimize, or attack the underprivileged. Comparing Falwell and Wright is like comparing the KKK with the NAACP.
I notice that some of the anti-Obama rants written here about the Obama-minister connection are sprinkled thruout other blogs all over the net today. Same words, same sign off names. So.... could this be yet another concerted campaign to bring Obama down? Coming from where, I wonder? Gee... Clintonistas perhaps? Another Mark Penn gem? Hmmmm.....
Barrack Obama along with his America hating wife and their America hating, racist preacher who HATE America and white people are NOT what America needs! VOTE FOR HILLARY!! Before it is too late. THIS is an OUTRAGE.
Obama's Mentor --> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hAYe7MT5BxM
Obama "disagrees with some of the statements" from Wright???
Give me a break! To sit and listen to ANY of that crap for 20 years makes Obama just as dirty as Scumbag Wright (don't call him Rev. again; he ain't no man of God!).
For Obama or anyone else to sit in that cult "church" and listen to that evil B.S., just lends a false credibility to such an imposter.
Now we see where Obama's wife feeds her hatred from too.
I don't care how many "good" things a person has to say. When their "evil" finally shows through, it's time to stay away permanently.
Obama displays TERRIBLE JUDGEMENT!!!!!! He should NEVER be allowed to make decisions for this country!!!
Hey Obama, try explaining what parts of Wright's message you DO agree with!
This is a really terrible time for Obama. I don't know how he will recover if he does not explain his church and his relationship with the pastor in great detail. I am seeing it on these message boards; the very people who voted for him are starting to lose faith in what he offers the country. In case you didn't know it, this is OBAMA's SWIFTBOAT- this attack came directly fron the Republicans and it is a good one with the ability to SINK his campaign. The thing you have to focus on IS because the Republicans have said this does it make it TRUE- does it make Obama a different candidate from the one you knew before. Was John Kerry different in his being after they ran the swiftboat ads? No, he was the SAME patriot he has always been. This country fell for Republican dirty tricks and lost the election in 2004. Are you going to fall for them again? Are you going to think that Obama HATES his white mother who gave him life and his WHITE GRANDPARENTS who raised him? Take out his pastors inflammatory language and get to the core TRUTHS he is espousing. America has made foreign policy decision that have maimed and killed people living outside of this country (this is FACT). We are doing this right now in IRAQ. His pastor believes us being attacked on 9/11 was retaliation for our foreign policy decisions that have killed and maimed- think about it for a second- IS that really so out of the ball park? Don't we WANT a foreign policy that is JUST for all of humankind? One that WILL ENSURES we are not hated enough to be attacked in the outrageous way we were on 9/11? If you as a white person can truly think for a second and try to join your black brothers and sisters (we are ALL HUMAN BEINGS) in this journey and I KNOW you have the decency in you to understand- BLACK AMERICANS have had to LOVE this country when it DID NOT LOVE US. This is the ULTIMATE ACT of love for your country. THAT is the BLACK EXPERIENCE. WHITE People do not have that UNIQUE experience. In the pastor's words WHITES hear HATRED because that has been your experience- to hate and terrorize black americans from slavery to Jim Crow. If you listen closer, you will find what you ACTUALLY hear is ANGER at being SOUGHT OUT for the bad things in country and being EXCLUDED from the goog things in the United States. ANGER comes from injustices. If you dig deep into your souls, you know that we can address these SOCIAL INJUSTICES so we can become the HUMAN FAMILY. Whites seems to think Obama sat there day after day and absorbed HATRED or even ANGER- Have you EVER thought he sat there day after day and said I WILL REPAIR this breach of TRUST that has occured between America and its citizens AND Americans of different races. Obama has said his presidency could bring about racial reconciliation and he is abosolutely RIGHT but do you think it will be easy? Of course not, we as Americans will have to face some UGLY truths about America and then seek to stamp them out. This is our chance to make a MORE PERFECT UNION- one where Pastor Wright can ONLY say GOD BLESS AMERICA for the way she has served her citizens. Are you going to let the REPUGNICANS take this away from you? They WILL you saw it in 2004!!!!!!!!!!! OBAMA 08!!!!!!!
Barack Obama have the strength of character to weather this storm and CREATE A MORE PERECT UNION in the vein of the GREAT AMERICAN Presidents that have come before you- Lincoln, Roosevelt, Kennedy....
Is Wright running for President? I am a Christian who does not accept every word of Jesus!
Let us get real and stop this politics of association.
Overlooked here is the fact that Obama's pastor is not fulfilling his duties as a pastor. Where is God in all of this? Is not his pastor's first duty to inform his congregation about the mind of God? Did Jesus ever discuss politics? Did Jesus condemn people for their sins? I think not. Obama's pastor is a charlatan politician disguising himself as a pastor. Pull his non-profit status.
Poor Obama ! He must feel so lonely having so different ideas fron those of his mother, his wife and now his spiritual guide. Please ! How can anyone more than 14 years old belive today (2008) in a politician claiming for 'change'. No wonder conmen can make so much money.
Obama has a problem here. I haven't seen any evidence he was present when Wright was making these comments and it isn't clear he was aware of them. I think some the political obituaries here a premature. However, Obama will have to explain his relationship with Wright and his view of Wright's rhetoric.
Ummm...call me crazy, but you can't choose your old foolish uncle but you CAN choose your pastor. Those closest to Obama (his wife, pastor, etc.) seem to be rather on the militant side...yet he just fluffs it all off. I don't think we really know who Obama is, so far, he has been hiding that. As a white person, who was going to vote for him, I feel somewhat betrayed...I will not be voting for him now.
I saw and heard the hateful words that came out of Pastor Wright (Obama's spiritual leader and close confident). I was appalled that anyone would consider this man a man of God. Yet, now I understand how Michelle Obama is so hateful herself; saying Americans are mean when her husband is scrutinized and that she has never been proud of being American until now that her husband is running for office. I cannot understand how no one has called Obama on these individual's hateful rhetoric. Then again this is America and even an individual with hateful supporters is entitle to run for office and God help us, maybe even win. As his pastor said we have brought the hate here and "it" is running for the highest office...
Obama, we don't choose our uncles. I am afraid this one will stick.
"I notice that some of the anti-Obama rants written here about the Obama-minister connection are sprinkled thruout other blogs all over the net today. Same words, same sign off names. So.... could this be yet another concerted campaign to bring Obama down? Coming from where, I wonder? Gee... Clintonistas perhaps? Another Mark Penn gem? Hmmmm....."
Gee, and we have all this press about how the Clinton campaign is in a shambles, chaotic.
Lost in the furor that I'm reading here is the fact that Wright's statements about 9/11 are true. My friends, it's called blowback, and just because you don't know or are ignoring what American foreign policy has looked like for the last 60 years, it doesn't make it go away.
Everybody's attacking the messenger - is it because the accuracy of his statements makes them uncomfortable?
As for African-American perceptions of a "culture controlled by rich white people" - I can see why they think that way. Can't you?
With this in mind, I'm having difficulty finding what exactly Obama - other than from a purely political standpoint - should denounce.
Yawn. I, speaking as one voter, believe in the separation of church and state. Although, sounds like a rockin' church.
Comments just as inflammatory and outside the mainstream of American thought coming from right-wing religious leaders associated with national Republican figures have been brushed off by Republican campaigns for years with relative insulation. Of course Obama should strongly reject the comments, but I don't see why this situation ought to play any differently than when it is a right-wing religious inflammation close to a politician.
Many of us are victims of hate and abuse dished out by friends, co-workers, family and strangers. Often when we finally speak up against the abuse we do it loudly and from a highly radical perspective. Later, looking back we generally find a balance and a way to make peace. We learn to forgive and move forward.
But when that abuse is dished out day after day it takes a far greater person than the average American to not be influenced by the abuse.
I don't deny that the African American population of America has been whipped around and has suffered vast measures of abuse. I also don't deny that other minorities (women, GLBT, Hispanics, Jews, etc.) have also suffered vast amounts of abuse.
My concern lies with the factors that not only allow but encourage such abuse to continue. Wright's words are abusive. They are that gut instinct to fight back from the radical side. Even if seen as sarcasm they are degrading and equally as abusive as the actions and words the African American people have suffered. He isn't asking his parish to stand up for themselves and be counted for - he's asking them to rally against their oppressors and attack with unforgiving force.
He plays an equal part in the continuance of racism, sexism, classism, etc as the people he is speaking out against.
For me, electing to subject yourself to his sermons is one thing - it's possible Barack Obama feels stronger than the average american and has the strength to remove himself from the hate. It's possible Obama could respect Wright simple because he points out an extreme that Obama would like to prevent. But if that is the case... why would you subject your offspring, at such an impressionable age, to incredibly radical extremly hateful sermons such as this? On a regular basis no less.
Christian Americans go to church at a young age to have the influence of Christ in their day to day life.
Obama and his family have gone to hear Wright for 20 years... how can ANY christian think that isn't going to have an influence on how Obama sees and treats the women, any race other than African American, and any person of a religious background not the same as his own?
I'm sorry, he can't reject or denounce Wright. He's a Wright follower, and to me - Wright is a danger to my safety and my freedom.
Obama might as well willingly listen to Phelps, Farwell and many others I can't stomach the thought of mentioning.
If HRC had a mentor for 20 years who made anti-jewish remarks or blamed the US for 9-11, she would be out of the race and probably out of the Senate. Obama's only "hope" seems to come from white guilt and the media giving him yet ANOTHER free pass. G Ferraro is out on her ear and Obama can make jokes about "not being in church that day".
It's hard to reconcile the fact that Obama has been consulted by Jeremiah Wright for the past 20 years -not to mention that he also baptized Obama's children- with the fact that Obama has lightly distanced himself from Wright's remarks.
If Obama truly didn't agree with what Wright preached, why didn't he leave his church earlier?
When you take Michelle Obama's statement that she just started having pride in her country after her husband began getting elected, you understand where that influence was coming from.
I scanned the comments and noticed many of you saying, basically, that we should "stop the politics of association." That is a preposterous statement. There is no possible way (psychologically speaking) that Obama could go to that Church for 20 years, have Wright play a crucial role in his life, and then disagree with him enough to make a difference. What is the motivation for doing that?
Even if Obama did start out disagreeing with Wright's Racist Anti-American nonsense, the mere length of attendance would compel him to begin to believe what he was hearing since there is nothing else (reasonable) to attribute his attendance too. If one is a proud american, why does one go to a vehemently anti-american church? Occum's razor simlply applied, one doesn't. The politics of association is the politics of truth. Now we know how Obama REALLY feels. Taken with his wife's despicable comments, and his total lack of experience, Obama is finished.
Disposing of the partisan "swift boat" claims for just a moment, allow me to expose my own bias. I have not made a political post in over 3 months, and that one was on global warming. I'm a right leaning independent voter in a heavily Republican area. Falwell was, in my view, cetainly as destructive as Wright. I find the fringes of both parties to be dangerous to the republic. Race: My church of 5,000 is 99.9% white, but our pastor is a black man. I attend, but at best I'm agnostic. I can't say that any of the three remaining candidates appeal to me deeply. I don't trust Clinton, and McCain is "business as usual." Obama is not Christ-like, as Mr. Wright has implied, and as was implied at a rally here when the minister concluded the opening prayer with the word, "in his name we pray, Barack Obama, yes we can, Amen." It appears to me that many of you on the far left are so desperate for a viable liberal candidate, but without the Clinton baggage, that you are willing to wear blinders and ignore dangerous signals. Go ahead and drink the koolade if you like. I'll just keep studying the candidates and keep an open mind.
Peezle : Thank you. Oh and I can see if anyone says there some context to understanding why a black pastor says these things they are accused of wanting all those people to die on 9/11. Are we back to that again? Yell traitor/treason anytime someone tries to understand the larger picture? I say there's a double standard in this country for blacks and whites because, say it with me people, THERE IS ONE. Get your ass down to the west side of Baltimore if you don't think so. I don't agree with everything Wright says, but I don't have to to understand the context. He's not getting a pass. And neither is Obama. But he should not be subjected to the kind of scared white people hysteria I see going on.
Reminds me of John McCain and Pastor Parsley, Kennedy and the Pope and Huckabee and Pastor Haggard, the minister of meth & Spitzer like massages of the Massachusetts style. Yep. Obama has BIG PROBLEM! He has joined just about every politician of faith that has leaders and members of the faith saying things that are not in agreement with their own preferences. I suppose we all have problems of an ecumenical nature. Parsley thinks that we need to initiate preemptive nuclear war in the middle east to rid ourselves of the Mohammedan threat to the purity of Christianity. The Pope thinks that if you are not Catholic you are bound for hell and are unworthy of consideration until conversion. And Obama's preacher thinks all sorts of things. I can only surmise that from a reading of this article it is just peachy that we should nuke the Islamic nations until they glow and that all the non Catholic folks should spend all eternity in some sort of purest damnation. And that Obama thinks 100% exactly what his preacher does. The only one that does. Thank you for making things so clear. You have been most helpful!
WHO CARES? THIS REV.WRIGHT IS AN IDIOT. THE REV. SPEAKS FOR HIMSELF NOT OBAMA. AND FOR THE MEDIA TO BRINGING UP OLD NEWS LIKE IS A WAIST OF TIME. THE MEDIA KNOWS GOOD-AND-WELL OBAMA DISAGREES WITH WRIGHT, BUT THEY STILL WANT TO MAKE A STORY--GET A LIFE? WHERE WERE ALL THE QUESTIONS WHEN BUSH WAS PLANNING TO INVADE IRAQ? IF IT'S NOT HILLARY, THEN ITS OBAMA. WHY IS THE MEDIA INJECTING RACE AND SEX INTO THIS ELECTION?
Barack Obama is going to get a free ride. He is a blank slate, wears a "mask" (said Black author Shelby Steele), is said to be able to "leap tall buildings with a single bound", and has the ultimate protective device at his disposal - The word "Rascist". He is going to enter the front doors of the White House and we'll all be saying "Uh, Oh, Who is that guy?"
Whats sad and rediculous about this is how long it has taken this stuff to get reported on. This is what happens when the MSM takes sides in an election. Wonder where we would be right now if this would have been reported on the week before the Iowa caucuses? I am pretty sure this race would be over and HRC and the Democrats would be focusing on John Mccain. Its a shame it took SNL to wake the media up!
This is not as much a racial issue (it is, to some degree, but just not wholesale) as it is an issue with the entire scrutiny of endorsement by association.
I'm almost positive that Hillary Clinton has people VERY close to her whose statements you can comb for inflammatory content. I'm sure John McCain has MANY people close to him that you could do the same.
Moreover, the public/private distinction is somewhat artificial in terms of its effect on public outrage. The fact that Wright's a pastor over an historic black church (and the black church has rich heritage to be celebrated by all Americans), does that make him more susceptible to scrutiny? Yes. Does it mean that there aren't people with incredibly skewed viewpoints associating with other candidates, but just privately? Absolutely not.
The comparisons being made between Wright and Falwell are completely absurd, on top of that. Wright has expressed his opinion as he preaches in a public forum, while Falwell transcended his role as a preacher to speak directly into American politics, intentionally and knowingly for shock value at times.
And finally, I have no doubt that Obama can separate himself from the radicalist comments of his pastor. I have several pastors that have shepherded me, taught me, fostered me in the faith and invested into who I am. Invariably, I am shaped by their investment, and I thank God for them. But I'm in absolute disagreement with many MANY important issues, especially on public policy.
Intelligent people do not wholesale adopt all of the views of those they respect. That goes for Obama, Clinton, McCain and many others. Without that basis, mud-slinging arguments lack merit.
If you dispense with the virtriol and recriminations, you can get to real potential effects of these statements and sound bites.
Primaries: Race was already a factor, and this won't play well in Pensylvania's blue collar Have fun in Denver.
Superdelegates: Anybody who's tun as a moderate will be tempted to flee from this. Other factors will be at work, but it's hard to see how the specter of this doesn't hurt Obama. Of course, if something new comes out on Hilary...
General Election: This comes down to who wins late deciders in key states: Middle Aged, Middle Class irritated people. Do they vote for the smiley guy with the neat vague message but the radical backing, or do they vote for the cranky old guy who has a reputation as belligerent but honest. Not hard to see how that breaks.
The irony is, the Dems should gain seats in both houses of Congress and lose the Presidency quite convincingly. What a year.
Of course, it's just March. This will get crazier. I can't wait.
For someone to say "God D* America" repeatedly and for most of the congregation not to get up and walk out led by the Senator is beyond comprehension. This is not Christianity and they are the opposite of what Dr. King taught and lived. The Senator and his Pastor ought to be castigated by everyone, right and left, for what they have said and supported. I can tell you one thing, if my Pastor said what this man has said, I would walk out immediately, cancel any checks, move my membership and wait for him at his office Monday morning for a very frank discussion. To give over 22k to him in 06, have him perform my marriage, baptize my kids and teach my children week in and week out would make me an absolute supporter of his hate and prejudice. Obama cannot run from this one. He either agrees or he has no backbone. Either one means he should never visit the White House, much less serve in the Oval Office of Lincoln, FDR and JFK.
Obama hasn't offered a response because there simply is not justification for it. Obama would not have attended this man's church for 20 years if he didn't agree with him.
If I walked into this guy's church, and he was preaching the hatred for this country and for whites that he was preaching on the video, I would immediately walk out. I would expect everyone else to do the same.
There is no justification. Obama needs to drop out. I'm a dem, but there is no way, NO WAY, I would support Obama now. If he gets the nomination, I'm voting for McCain.
IF OBAMA IS THE NOMINEE, WITH THIS, HE IS TOAST.
NO WAY HE CAN GET AWAY FROM THIS. WRIGHT ACTIVELY WORKS IN OBAMAS CAMPAIGN AS WELL.
Rev. Wright is part of Obama's campaign - he is a member of Obama's African American Religious Leadership Committee.
http://www.mydd.com/story/2008/3/13/14167/3166
Seeing this video of Rev. Wright is chilling. It also explains many things that have troubled me about Barack Obama and his wife, Michelle.
His refusal to wear a flag pin.
His refusal to hold his hand over his heart during the Pledge of Allegiance.
His wife's comments about her lack of pride in America and other extremely negative comments about America.
It's all starting to make sense now.
Barack and Michelle Obama's loyalty is certainly not with this country.
Obama referred to Rev. Wright as an uncle who says crazy things sometimes.
Well, you can't choose who your uncle is, but you certainly can choose what church you attend.
20 years of a steady diet of this kind of vitriolic hate speech has to be at the very foundation of one's outlook on life.
This man and his wife cannot be our president and first lady.
Yes, there was some real anger in Reverend Wright's words. And many now pretend to take the full measure of the man's life and career from a few video clips and unfamiliarity with the rhetorical style of many African American ministers. Perhaps we should remember the words of an earlier preacher:
“Do not judge so that you will not be judged. 2 “For in the way you judge, you will be judged; and by your standard of measure, it will be measured to you. 3 “Why do you look at the speck that is in your brother’s eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye? 4 “Or how can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ and behold, the log is in your own eye? 5 “You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother’s eye. 6 “Do not give what is holy to dogs, and do not throw your pearls before swine, or they will trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you to pieces."
Of course, this same preacher upset local authorities when he became violent, lost his temper, and pushed moneychangers out of the temple of Jerusalem, "And said unto them, It is written, My house shall be called the house of prayer; but ye have made it a den of thieves."
A preacher who spoke in this intemperate manner might well find himself running afoul of the authorities. They might want to humiliate him publicly or worse. Likewise, the notion that the events of September 11th might have anything to do with America's own actions is unthinkable. How could a religious man hold such an opinion?:
II Kings 17:7-23: God has allowed the Assyrians to defeat and deport all his people, taking them from Israel to other parts of the Assyrian world. This occurred in 722 B.C. This passage in II Kings tells us why: “All this took place because the Israelites had sinned against the Lord their god, who had brought them up out of Egypt. . . . They worshiped other gods and followed the practices of the nations the Lord had driven out before them.” And the passage continues to enumerate their sins. For 200 years the prophets had warned the kings and people of Israel: “Repent or you’ll be punished.” For 200 years, the nation ignored God and his prophets.
Judah: Now Isaiah is a prophet who begins to minister just at the time of the fall of Israel, and who sees visions of what will happen to Judah if they continue on a similar, unfaithful path. And we know, from Isaiah 6, that God told Isaiah that no one would listen to him. Their destruction is also inevitable, and it comes in its finality in 586 B.C. when Jerusalem falls and the last of three groups of people is exiled to Babylon. [two preceding paragraphs off of a google bible site]
These examples are not included as prophecy about the United States , but simply to show that the Judeo-Christian prophetic tradition in which Reverend Wright stands is not one simply of sweetness and light, but also of divine judgment, even on one's own country when it fails to uphold its ideals, whether it is worshipping a calf of gold, or one of “black gold.”
The message from Rev. Wright is nothing new--this goes on in many black churches across the country every Sunday. It's a fact.
A few observations:
There is a core of truth in what Wright says, and some amount of rational anger at US policy and US history. This country has routinely supported some of the nastiest dictators in history, has routinely deposed left wing thugs and democratically elected leaders in order to install right wing thugs, has interfered in the legitimate politics of many other nations and has deserved a tremendous amount of vitriole. (Google: Mossadegh, Allende, Ferdinand Marcos, Saddam Hussein(he was our client for a while),and read up on US policy and history. AT THE SAME TIME, this country has a beautiful constitution (have you read it lately?) and a people who when called upon to do good actually manage sometimes to forget some of their own stupid beliefs long enough to reach out, to rebuild after disasters. So let's try to see both of these countries simultaneously--the bad and the good. The Rev. Mr. Wright (Dr?) sees part of it, and he's right to see that part. Obama sees both parts. In his second book he talks about meeting with Sen. Byrd, who had once been aligned with the KKK. Think about serving in the US Senate with a former member of that organization -- when you are an African-American. Just think about it for a minute--it's worth the brain cells. Then think about this man's ability to see that, yes this country has had a history of denying his life, his worth, his humanity. And this country has gotten past a lot of that. Maybe it's time for all of us to understand this history, treat it with the sadness and even anger it deserves, and then move forward. We have not been perfect, we have sometimes been truly awful, we have sometimes been good, though. Obama is transformational precisely in that he can see the anger and move beyond. And no, I don't work for his campaign! I merely vote.
This video clip is 6 months old. SHAME ON THE MEDIA FOR HIDING THIS UNTIL NOW. You sit on something THIS IMPORTANT for all this time.
If I had seen this months ago, I would have supported Hillary. I suspect many, many people who voted Obama would have done the same.
What do we do now? Obama has the delegate and vote lead, but I sure as heck am not going to support him now. But if the supers back Hillary, blacks will be outraged.
We're pretty much stuck in a bind we can't get out of thanks to the media's blind support for Obama in the past. McCain is guaranteed to win in November because of you.
I hope you're happy. Please consider what you've done the next time you decide to slant news coverage in favor of one candidate for months.
OMG!!
This is outrageous, Obama MIGHT HAVE TO SPEAK UP AND SAY SOMETHING ABOUT THIS... suck it up media/pundits have some courage, balls, nerve, do your chicken hearted, scared to death looking over your shoulder, light weight, weak...selve's a favor. MAN UP!!
The gutless media and pundits are at it again... Always scared to say what is obvious to all, about this race bating that has been going on in around and during the Obama campaign....
Talk about Muslims dancing in the streets, I've been left winged, all my adult life, but the Right wingers are right about this one. Dead right!!! I have no problems with religion, but Wright's sermons are tailor made for fanning the flames of many people in the world, who want to kill Americans just for the sake of being born American.
Obama's lack of courage to step away form this, is extraordinary telling about him and his wife. They are Ivy League schooled, both of them, Harvard lawyers!! They understood exactly what was going on in that church and they (((embraced it.))) Then comes injury to insult, once he, Obama, decided to take a role in Public Service he continued to be a part of it. Here lies his serious lack of judgment, as to what kind of explosive consequences that are associated with this. ARE PARAMOUNT...
I feel sorry for Obama, he is not going to be able to wiggle out of this. Axelrod, Obama's campaign manager is a fool, he should have done something with/about this early on.
One cannot pick family, but one can pick pastors and associations....
This is a serious lack of judgment, no president of America can be this naive, and just plain stupid. He will never be elected in the general election. He is dead in the water in Presidential Politics.
I do feel for Obama, but Oh My God, his judgment about this is terrifying. Early on, he had a chance to "get out of the oven" but he stayed inside, turned up the heat, and closed the door. No one can survive that.....
Obama is not guilty for the remarks his former pastor made. Remember that Obama was raised by a white single mother and did not know his Kenyan father. So, attending this church was a way for him to try to understand the struggles of African Americans. Obama's mother died of cancer, and his father died in a car accident. Obama really did work as a community organizer. And we have done a lot of things wrong, though I disagree with his pastor's radical remarks. I think Obama is an entirely different person than his pastor. First of all, can anyone picture Obama shouting like this? I could never see him doing that. In fact, I could see Hillary Clinton shouting like this if she happens to fail to rig the Democratic struggle for nomination by buying the votes of superdelegates and by playing the race card--trying to get non-African Americans to hate African Americans or to belittle their struggle for equality. Let's not forget that Barack is half-white and that he wouldn't be where he is if it weren't for his white mother. Let's also not forget the African American community's struggle for equality. The last time I checked, only 37 black politicians in positions of power have existed, and Barack is the only black man in the Senate. And yes, those among us who are white cannot say we know what it means to be degraded by someone else calling us a n---.
Obama is raising his children in this vile, hateful church. He can't spin out of this. He's a chameleon -- one thing in the hood, something else when he wants our votes.
bethtopaz's post laid it all out. Some more of the same.
People keep saying that Obama does not believe what Wright was preaching, even though they were obviously quite close. How can Obama have a "spiritual guide" that he disagrees with on such fundamental issues? Any patriot could not sit for 20 years and have his country bashed by anyone, much less friend. Why are people so against seeing Obama for what he is? Denial? What has Obama given us to support his claim that he disagrees with Wright..."trying to be provocative"? Gimme a break, if Obama disagreed with Wright he would have left the church. Anyone with any common sense can see he beliefs this garbage.
I believe America is prepared to elect a black man as president. However, there is a caveat to that. He needs to be an American first, a proud American, and a "melted" American. Obama has a lot of support from people who are young and idealistic and believe that all people are equal and essentially the same. If it turns out that Obama subscribes to the Black America mentality, that he is not truly an American Everyman as he has been portrayed, a lot of that support will disappear. This is not to deny the "Black Experience" in America and our collective historical sins and so on -- but political reality. The comments of his wife, now his pastor, his continuing to trust that man and value his advice for decades despite the vileness -- to the vast majority of Americans -- of much of what he says. The more Obama moves from the ideal he has represented, the less support he will have. It may be "racist" but it is also "culturalist" one could say. America isn't ready, and should never be ready, to have somebody serve as our Chief Executive and Commander in Chief who is not 100% unabashedly American in heart and mind. It is fine, laudable, to be critical of our country, to recognize our faults and seek to correct them -- but you must love our country to be President. That must be unassailable and unquestionable. It's becoming questionable for Obama.
This is not a swiftboat!!!Noone forced Obama to visit a racist church for 20 years. Noone made up the vided of his pastor ranting on about how Americans deserved 9/11. Obama says the pastor has been his mentor. Gee, I wonder what Obama really thinks, what his true values are! He is bamboozling the Americans about his message of hope and change.
How is Rev.Right different that outlandish statements of all the evangelical religous leaders going on TV and mouthing off? I did not see any right wingers' apologize and distance themselves or have to explain themselves. On the other hand, those seeking political office have to suck up to them, so they can get the white evangleical crowd to vote for them (what is Mr.Cain is doing right now?)
i do think Mr.Obama will have some explaining to do to those who consider this relevant. But its funny that he should have to explain his church associations, but nobody else has had to!
as for those who worry about Mr. Obama exposing his children to hatred and violent thought - have you taken away those video games from your kids, those toy guns and turned off Cable TV that has endless shows on crime, war and other violent ACTS rather than just violent WORDS?
lets get a grip on ourselves!
OBAMA'S MINISTER OF HATE
WHEN IS BHO GONNA """SEPARATE" Himself from this "SPEWWWWWWWWWWW""
THIS IS TERRIBLE, THE WORST THING I HAVE EVER HEARD. AND BHO is not saying a word, as most of the mainstream media is not saying a word.
I would have walked out of that church 20 years ago. This man, BHO, is running for President of the United States of America.
His Preacher, and I use that word lightly, CURSES AMERICA ???????????? AND BHO remains a member and stands by this [ preacher ]
SPEAK OUT AMERICANS. I AM A PROUD AMERICAN.
BORN AND RAISED AMERICAN.
RAISE MY HAND TO THE FLAG.
Hold my hand OVER my heart to the Star Spangled Banner.
EMAIL, CALL, Write letters.. MAKE BHO either get this preacher off his campaign and away from his MENTORING. OR QUIT THE RACE FOR PRESIDENT
I am 64 years old, a wife, mother, grandmother and great grandmoter. AND A PROUD AMERICAN.
I am HORRIFIED BY THIS REV WRIGHT RACIST HATRED !!!!!!!!!!!!
Given what has transpired today, Florida and Michigan should not be the only ones redoing their primaries. Many Obama voters are now wishing the could take back their vote. If Barack is nomited, the Dems can kiss their November victotry goodbye. Obama would have been better off being a muslim.
Let's all remember this is not the only time Obama has said one thing to find out he did differently behind closed doors. "nafta-gate" for instance.
There is no way he can distance himself now from this church or pastor. It would be like saying he denounced his mother or father. He has a 20 year relationship by choice with them pastor
not to mention the 17 year friendship with Rezko that was also BY CHOICE.
Wright blamed American foreign policies for Sept. 11, but that seems little different than the line of reasoning proposed by Jerry Falwell. The bottom line is that these ministers are not up for election, and people of faith (Democrats and Republicans) risk losing much if these lines of attack continue unchallenged. We have enough atheists and lukewarm adherents in higher office already.
I would rather hear what the candidates believe about matters of policy and of moral conviction regarding life, marriage, and helping the less fortunate. Those are weighty enough issues to address without the aforementioned sideshows.
For those drawing comparisons to right wing Christian leaders.
Lets assume that some conservative Christian leaders may have said things that could be construed as on par with Wright's sermons (though none come to mind right now). The difference is that these people, while potentially allied with many GOP politicians in some common causes, do not have nearly the same relationship that Wright and Obama have. No baptisms, no marriages, no 20 years of allegiance. The comparison is a weak point at best.
talk about a lack of good judgement.To continue to affilliate intimately with this church for 20 years is far more dispicable than Hillary giving a vote for authorization based on George Bushs lies. This really shows who can get it right on day 1, and it is not Obama. This also should open up even further the discussion of the clever manipulation of the press that the Obama campaign has used to try and portray the Clintons as racist. Clearly Obama knows exactly what race bating does to advantage his campaign with the African American voter and is not as innocent as he trys to portray himself in this matter. It looks like he has spent 20 years learning from a "master" which is very disturbing.
I'm with Lesley.
The longer the nomination process goes on, the more stories like this will come out from the media. They can't attack the individual so they go this guilty by association route. We'll see a new one every week.
Being a New Yorker - I'm not offended. If you don't believe we contributed to 9/11, take another look at the history of our foreign policy.
This situation isn't any different for Obama than a white candidate being a member of a country club that won't admit blacks. I also reject the Wright/Falwell comparison. As far as I know Falwell has never said anything close to "Gd D*m America". Wright gives explanation to why Michelle Obama has pride in her country for the first time in her adult life.
I think that we all have close friends or mentors with whom we share many ideas or values, but differ dramatically on politics. If this man were Obama's advisor in law school, or his mentor in the state or US senate, then it would be a different matter. But a professor of constitutional law does not go to church to get politicked.
Is it really so difficult to understand the vitriol of an old black pastor in an inner city Chicago church? Have we lost all understanding of the pain endured by the African American community for so many years? I?m sure on the whole he is a fine man who has endured much in his long career. Long ago I learned to accept the imperfect realities of organized religion. Does attendance at this church make Barack Obama anything less than a human being striving for a greater good? Look deeper at the statements of this pastor and you we may see the true imperfections in both ourselves and this nation. We are a good but imperfect people. Our policies have done much to harm others despite best intentions.
I think this issue is something to think over. However, to somehow eclipse Obama's public record due to Wright's doctrine is ignorant. Obama needs to approach this man the same way Kennedy approached the Catholic church by stating that Wright will not influence his administration. Remember that Kennedy and his children were baptized, married, etc. by a Catholic priest.
I think what we are seeing is Obama's negative rating will rise among those who would not have supported him in any case. Tough luck for him.
Barack Obama's Post-Racial Politics?
Barack Obama's long time association with Reverend Wright puts the lie to the candidate's assertion that he is somehow bringing a transcendent, post-racial kind of politics to our country.
It seems apparent to me that someone with a religious background such as his, and with a wife who has let more than one ill-considered remark slip past her lips, is just a fake and a fraud, trying to convince the voters that he is something new and different when he is nothing more than a radical rabble rouser intent on foisting his own ambitions on a gullible nation.
In this regard he reminds me a great deal of Hillary Clinton. She too has suppressed her crypto-communist views so as to make herself all the more electable.
We have here two Manchurian Candidates. I am hopeful that the "bark" will in fact be peeled off both of them and John McCain will rise to victory to defend this nation at its most critical hour since 9/11 itself.
Most of the people here who has said that because of this issue alone they are now not going to support Obama, probably were looking for a reason not to support him anyway but felt guilty doing it just because he is black. Or they just showed how uninformed they are seeing that Wright said these things years ago. Amazing, we can have John McCain and Bush give speecches at Bob Jones University, have McCain have to earn the the respect and support of some of these right-wing nuts, watch Bill Oreilly, Hannity, and Pat Buchanan spew their right-wing, racist nonsense everyday on T.V. but we want to cast Obama away because of what his Pastor said 8 years ago? News flash people: What Wright said about 911 was no different than any of the stuff Ron Paul has been saying for a year now! Oh and guess what... A great deal of it was.. gasp.. true! The reason we keep ending up with the same people in power is because every time someone good comes along we hold them to some ridiculous standard that we don't hold the others to because we expect it from them. Did Obama make a mistake by not totally disavowing this guy? Yes. But I think it's time we as a nation grow up a little bit and decide what we really want in this country. To all of you who want to hate Obama now... Go ahead and pay your $4.00 a gallon gasoline and vote for McCain or reward Clinton for her tactics. I'm want a change. I want Obama
Republican Hypocracy
I remember that John McCain went to stand beside Minister Hagey to thank him for his endorsement. It was Minister Hagey that called all Catholics devil worshipers?
McCain said and I quote "Just because I recievean endorsement from someone doesn't mean that I agree with everything they say."
Well, it seems to me that the same could be said for Minister Wright and Barack Obama.
To The ATLANTIC editors - do you see, as I do, that the vast majority of these comments were orchestrated and are likely the result of 2 or 3 writers? These SAME remarks are posted at any blog with this article and the ability to post without registering. You may want to do a fix - or some poor suspecting soul might actually think thate are 30 or 40 folks out there that really feel they've been "shammed by Barack"!
"Obama ain't rich" ???? If buying a mansion for $1.65 million and then a slice of land for $100k from your rich slum lord buddy (who let poor black people freeze through Chicago winters) ... if that isn't rich, then tell the poor people in the rust belt who've lost their mortgages, what IS rich, exactly? Wright has pulled back the curtain on Obama's disingenuous candidacy once and for all.
The problem I have is that many Americans allow the media to do their thinking for them. I do not think that reverend Wright is an idiot or any other demoralizing term, but only speaking to African Americans from the perspective of an African American who has experienced the but of this country's extremely racially devisive history. Non African American people realy have little appreciatin of this vantagepoint. Somethings, however, are facts. Racism was legal in this country-fact. The country's current socio econmic environment has been structured around a "dominant" white culture--fact. America has, in the past, made some mistakes in international policy and dealings with other nations-fact. The "N" word is a derrogatory term used by some to demoralize African Americans-fact. All of these are true, but what do they have to do with Obama's abilities to reconstruct healthcare, employ a logical exit strategy as far as the war in Iraq is concerned,Promote "green" efficiency, such as use of alternative fuels, energy conservation etc, or to initiate plans that reverse our country's downward economic spiral? If you want to critisize Wright, please find fault with him as a spiritual leader-if you can- because that is what he was. As you condemn Wright, It would help for to you also be intimately familiar with the African American experience, otherwise you may not understand the depth of what you are repudiating. Wright was not a noted politician or policy adviosor to anyone. Obama has stated plainly that he denounces much of what Wright has said. It makes no sense to hold Senator Obama accountable for a person who is not his surragate, who has opinions that some Americans do not agree with.
If I had seen this months ago, I WOULD NOT HAVE RAISED MY HAND FOR OBAMA. Now all I can do is hope that Hillary wins, or I will vote for McCain. And if the Democratic party nominates someone whose "SPIRTUAL ADVISOR" is so vitriolic and hate filled, I will never vote for a democrat again, including dog catcher.
These are some of the things Mormons have been taught about Black People. Mitt Romney is a member of this Church! No body even cared win he was running. Go figure.
"Now WE ARE GENEROUS WITH THE NEGRO. WE ARE WILLING that the Negro have the highest kind of education. I WOULD BE WILLING to LET every Negro DRIVE A CADILLAC IF THEY COULD AFFORD IT. I WOULD BE WILLING that they have all the advantages they can get out of life in the world. BUT LET THEM ENJOY THESE THINGS AMONG THEMSELVES." LDS "Apostle" Mark E. Petersen, "Race Problems - As They Affect the Church," Address delivered at Brigham Young University, August 27, 1954, as quoted in Jerald and Sandra Tanner's book entitled, "The Changing World of Mormonism," p. 307, emphasis added.
LDS - "Those who were LESS VALIANT IN PRE-EXISTENCE and who thereby had certain spiritual restrictions imposed upon them during mortality are known to us as the NEGROES." LDS "Apostle" Bruce R. McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, p. 527, 1966 edition, emphasis added.
LDS - "THE NEGROES ARE NOT EQUAL WITH OTHER RACES where the receipt of certain spiritual blessings are concerned, ...but this inequality is not of man's origin. IT IS THE LORD'S DOING, is based on his eternal laws of justice, and grows out of the LACK OF SPIRITUAL VALIANCE OF THOSE CONCERNED IN THEIR FIRST ESTATE [the Mormon pre-existence]." LDS "Apostle" Bruce R. McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, p. 527 - 528, 1966 edition, emphasis added.
LDS - "...[T]hrough their INDIFFERENCE or LACK OF INTEGRITY TO RIGHTEOUSNESS, [blacks] rendered themselves UNWORTHY of the Priesthood and its powers...." LDS "Historian" B. H. Roberts, The Contributor, vol. 6, pp. 296-297, as quoted in Jerald and Sandra Tanner's book entitled "The Changing World of Mormonism," p. 293, emphasis added.
One small detail about Kennedy and Catholicism is that the Catholics never said "God D*$m America" or anything like Wright's other obnoxious statements.
And also, Hagey was never McCain's "spiritual advisor", and Wright's support to Obama is Far MORE than endorsement. Not to mention McCain hasn't touched this issue. Didn't you guys hear about the "talking points"?
Seems posters here are upset about the Wright sermons and comments. Many of you suffer from extreme naivite. In a sense, black folk live in a world seperate from other races in America. The kind of vitriol associated with Wright is seen as truth and wisdom to black folk in general. Otherwise why would Wright have such a successful ministry? So the real question is not "is America ready for a black president?", rather "is a black man ready to be the American president?"
Ethan - don't be surprised. They are only pointing their fingers at others because they have no excuse for this.
And seriously McCain is the last person you can accuse of being a "radical right wing Christian".
Dillon, to put it another way, those of you who are not concerned by this issue and plan to vote for Obama anyway, are doing so solely because he's black. Sauce for the goose.
"There is no possible way (psychologically speaking) that Obama could go to that Church for 20 years, have Wright play a crucial role in his life, and then disagree with him enough to make a difference. What is the motivation for doing that?"
My mother has been going to the same Catholic church about 5 times a week for the last 50 years and disagrees with a vast amount of what is said there. That with which she agrees outweighs the negative aspects for her.
These are some of the things Mormons have been taught about Black People. Mitt Romney is a member of this Church!
"Now WE ARE GENEROUS WITH THE NEGRO. WE ARE WILLING that the Negro have the highest kind of education. I WOULD BE WILLING to LET every Negro DRIVE A CADILLAC IF THEY COULD AFFORD IT. I WOULD BE WILLING that they have all the advantages they can get out of life in the world. BUT LET THEM ENJOY THESE THINGS AMONG THEMSELVES." LDS "Apostle" Mark E. Petersen, "Race Problems - As They Affect the Church," Address delivered at Brigham Young University, August 27, 1954, as quoted in Jerald and Sandra Tanner's book entitled, "The Changing World of Mormonism," p. 307, emphasis added.
LDS - "Those who were LESS VALIANT IN PRE-EXISTENCE and who thereby had certain spiritual restrictions imposed upon them during mortality are known to us as the NEGROES." LDS "Apostle" Bruce R. McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, p. 527, 1966 edition, emphasis added.
LDS - "THE NEGROES ARE NOT EQUAL WITH OTHER RACES where the receipt of certain spiritual blessings are concerned, ...but this inequality is not of man's origin. IT IS THE LORD'S DOING, is based on his eternal laws of justice, and grows out of the LACK OF SPIRITUAL VALIANCE OF THOSE CONCERNED IN THEIR FIRST ESTATE [the Mormon pre-existence]." LDS "Apostle" Bruce R. McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, p. 527 - 528, 1966 edition, emphasis added.
LDS - "...[T]hrough their INDIFFERENCE or LACK OF INTEGRITY TO RIGHTEOUSNESS, [blacks] rendered themselves UNWORTHY of the Priesthood and its powers...." LDS "Historian" B. H. Roberts, The Contributor, vol. 6, pp. 296-297, as quoted in Jerald and Sandra Tanner's book entitled "The Changing World of Mormonism," p. 293, emphasis added.
Pappy: "black folk live in a world seperate from other races in America" - This is a very sad statement. If this pastors comments are typical of the black community... I have a fear we will never reach racial harmony.
Njorl- Then why does she go? And if what you say is true, than it goes against the overwhelming body of psychological literature that says otherwise (ie. cognitive dissonance and attribution theory).
As a longtime supporter of Sen.Obama, I am completely appalled. This spells DISASTER for the so far sparkling campaign.
Why can't we in this supposedly 'greatest country in the world', find politicians worthy of our respect and trust ?
Walter - why are you attacking Mormons for something someone said 50 years ago? Maybe they felt that way then... but to use this as a point in this discussion seems way out of line.
FYI - I am not a Mormon or a fan of their religion (at all).
For sometime now I have felt like I needed to take a shower when I would listen to Obama, now I know why? You can't sit in a church for 20 years and not believe what is being taught. this is just the beginning of the end for the Obama campaign.
To all those out here defending Obama-- I may not know what his personal beliefs are about whites or Muslims, or leftists. But I do know one thing. If you really want to know who a man is, look at who he surrounds himself with. Rezko, Wright, former weathermen. Hmm. Interesting about what I see.
Someone (Barbie 1 3607) spoke of Hillary or McCain attending a segregated church for years.
But Hillary was a Goldwater girl of her own free will. Goldwater was a segregationist.
And guess what! Most of our politicians have old uncles whom they love and who still say N_gras.
And guess what else....African Americans know the first words spoken by the pastor are true whether white America wants to accept it or not. Hillary has never been called a "N".
Re: 9/11 It was horrendous and devastating. The US has to however realise what its image is in the world. Not only the third world (with which we tend to not be particularly concerned), but also of the "Western" world. Not what they say to the US to its face, but what they really feel. We have to pinch ourselves. It has dealt with dictators. It has overthrown popular leaders. We can't bury our heads like ostriches in the sand and claim total innocence. We can't support dictators today and with great self-righteousness turn on them tomorrow and remain unscathed.
We have to think about what we are doing and also learn more about the rest of the world. We as a people really do not know enough about the rest of the world.
I have difficulty believing that Obama does not wholeheartedly share the sentiments expressed by his wife and his pastor, notwithstanding his elevated campaign rhetoric about hope, tolerance, unity, and change.
The two best eyes into a married Christian man's soul are the beliefs of two people--his wife and the pastor of his church. I doubt the honesty of any denial on Obama's part that he was ignorant of Reverend Wright's beliefs about "White America" and how America deserved 9-11, or that his wife really did not mean it when she said that her husband's success at the polls made her proud to be an American for the first time as an adult. Such deepseated and strong statements are rarely isolated occurrences, but candid reflections of one's personal world view.
I doubt very much that Reverend Wright never gave sermons expounding these views before, that Obama never was on hand to hear them, and that Obama does not also share these views. I cannot imagine how one in good conscience can belong to a church for decades that epouses beliefs that one finds morally offensive.
When the comments by Reverend Wright and Michelle Obama are coupled with Barack's ballyhooed friendships with Anti-American activists, they only serve to enhance the credibility of the Republican Party's view that the American Left takes the view of "Hate/Blame America First."
I never thought that I would prefer Hillary to Obama, but now I do. Obama has to re-earn the credibility I once thought he had.
Obama left Columbia and NY to be an activist. He joined that church expressly, in part, because he needed to join a traditional black chicago church to be successful as a community organizer and black politician in Illinois. And because from his youth, he had always sought inclusion in the black experience he could not know personally. It was a two-for for him.
He joined it because it was popular and essentially typical. This church and its rhetoric is no different from those of thousands of innercity black churches across the land. Some people are now shocked by this, and find it racist, unpatriotic, and so on. They are shocked, shocked that blacks don't think back with the same thrill about the moon landing or the brilliant louisana purchase, and instead think about the contemporaneous humiliations being in america brought them. And they (still) like to talk about this on Sundays. Who knew?
Now we have to open a vintage can of worms here about exactly how alienated blacks should feel or exactly when they should have gotten over it. Obama may have to open it himself.
Joining the church at 25 with bascically zero personal experience with traditional black religion or culture was naive, and his ignorance of the black experience at 25 also meant his ignorance of how these churches are viewed by the mainstream. He has been able to rationalize away the issue until now, but now he has to deal with it. I feat that this may be one part of his experience where the alienation of his youth has not been resolved and is out in the open.
These are some of the things Mormons have been taught about Black People. Mitt Romney is a member of this Church! Were was the Atlantic.com when Mitt was in the race.
"Now WE ARE GENEROUS WITH THE NEGRO. WE ARE WILLING that the Negro have the highest kind of education. I WOULD BE WILLING to LET every Negro DRIVE A CADILLAC IF THEY COULD AFFORD IT. I WOULD BE WILLING that they have all the advantages they can get out of life in the world. BUT LET THEM ENJOY THESE THINGS AMONG THEMSELVES." LDS "Apostle" Mark E. Petersen, "Race Problems - As They Affect the Church," Address delivered at Brigham Young University, August 27, 1954, as quoted in Jerald and Sandra Tanner's book entitled, "The Changing World of Mormonism," p. 307, emphasis added.
LDS - "Those who were LESS VALIANT IN PRE-EXISTENCE and who thereby had certain spiritual restrictions imposed upon them during mortality are known to us as the NEGROES." LDS "Apostle" Bruce R. McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, p. 527, 1966 edition, emphasis added.
LDS - "THE NEGROES ARE NOT EQUAL WITH OTHER RACES where the receipt of certain spiritual blessings are concerned, ...but this inequality is not of man's origin. IT IS THE LORD'S DOING, is based on his eternal laws of justice, and grows out of the LACK OF SPIRITUAL VALIANCE OF THOSE CONCERNED IN THEIR FIRST ESTATE [the Mormon pre-existence]." LDS "Apostle" Bruce R. McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, p. 527 - 528, 1966 edition, emphasis added.
LDS - "...[T]hrough their INDIFFERENCE or LACK OF INTEGRITY TO RIGHTEOUSNESS, [blacks] rendered themselves UNWORTHY of the Priesthood and its powers...." LDS "Historian" B. H. Roberts, The Contributor, vol. 6, pp. 296-297, as quoted in Jerald and Sandra Tanner's book entitled "The Changing World of Mormonism," p. 293, emphasis added.
Its information like this that gets swept under the carpet(for now) by the republicans. The Republicans WANT Obama to win because this is the kind of information that is going kill our chances of getting a democrat in office as President! Instead, media is talking about Ferraro's comment.... why, because they want people to become upset, go against Hillary and vote Obama! So much information is going to come out about Obama, his upbringing, his wife- if he gets the nomination. //Sidenote: His wife says she's never been proud of American until NOW; Now the next closest person to him says U.S. invited 9-11. Come on-- The republicans are just waiting....... People, think about!
those who attempt to lighten this up by just speaking of an association with Jeremiah Wright apparently are not being honest with themselves. Have they even read the statements on the website of the church? Have they listened to what Obama listened to? Did they not think it had any influence on his thinking. He is a little Jermiah Wright after listening to him for 20 years. If you like a racist and a hate-monger, then vote for him. But, please understand that what you are doing is formalizing an extension of who you are. Wright is nothing less than a bigoted racist. Obama must be one also or he would not have chosen to listen for 20 years and take his children there to be tuaght what Wright was teaching.
Vote for whomever you choose, but I don't believe that most of America is racist and I don't believe that Americans want a racist in the White House.
Orchestrated Efforts?
I think some of these posters may be onto to something when they suggest that a lot of these messages are being orchestrated by the Clinton campaign.
Read the hurt and wounded tone of the FORMER Barack supporters, so easily shaken. I don't think these folks would turn so quickly and so radically. They would reflect a bit and then perhaps move their loyalties.
Kool Aide drinkers like many of those who have swooned to Obama's siren song would not want to believe the worst of him so easily. They'd ask for another sip or two before making up their minds.
Cyclamates, anyone?
Are you kidding? Obama chose this church; he has been a member for 20 years. The pastor married him, baptized his children. You can not tell me this Pastor developed his views of the world overnight and it just so happened Obama never sat in the pews and heard these sermons.
What kind of judgment are you displaying if you maintain a relationship with a church and pastor with such radical views?
If we forget Obama for a moment and think about his young daughters, it's okay for Obama's children to be exposed to this kind of hate?
Do the Obama's believe at some level that any of what this man says is true? Is that why Michelle Obama states in her speeches that "America is mean" and "I am proud of America for the first time in my life"? Have these views formed because of this Pastor?
Lane- Republicans do NOT want Obama to win. Many republicans are switching in primaries to vote for Hillary against Obama. And conservatives couldn't be more pleased that Obama's church is FINALLY getting the media attention it deserves.
Senator Obama, you once stole someone elses words for a speech and they went like this "Just words? 'We hold these truths to be self-evident.' Just words? 'I have a dream.' Just words?"
Well now, Senator, it is your turn to take seriously the words of someone near and dear to you.
"God Damn America" Just words, Senator?
Yeah, it's all over now, baby blue! Anyone who knows anything about this country--and Obama supporters who see some truth in Wright's statements will point out how ignorant and racist they think we are--will know that Obama doesn't have a prayer in a general election. The Dem's are in an almost impossible position. There's no way out of this. Not even (shhh...) not even Oprah can save him now. And Michelle can go back to not being proud of her country.
Boy there are some racists, communists and general idiots on here. I spent 30 years and several combat tours so people like J. Wright can say what they want. That being said, to all of you on here who say "My pastor has said things I did not like also", well did YOUR pastor or any other pastor you ever heard of, or Pat Robertson, or Hagee, or even Farrankhan say ""Don't say God Bless America, but Say God Damn America". To say this while we are still at war and our soldiers are dying while we type dribble on here is amazing. I also have seen terrible mistakes from our leadership and seen first hand the bloody results. I am disgusted with Bush, and very very concerned about the direction of the american idol type country we have become. But when you call Bush names, or some other politician or some policy, that is fine and your right and frankly being a good American. When you say God Damn America, your being unpatriotic, blasphemous, and in the case of Rev. Wright, racist, divisive, and disgusting.
This will very likely cost Obama the Democratic nomination. If by some way he gets the nomination he will lose the general election because the millions of soldiers, sailors, airman, marines, coast guardsman, active and reserves, the veterans, their families, their close relatives, the blue dog democrats in the south, the jewish, the evangelicals, the hispanics WILL NOT vote for Obama.
I am ashamed of Rev. Wright, I am ashamed of Barrack Obama and I am ashamed of anyone on here who supports either one of these two racists, who hate this country.
I'd prefer it if Barack Obama was Client #10.
Now the dots look a lot easier to connect:
1) Michelle gives hateful, disgusting talks about our country and people, and we initially think she misspoke or was being intentionally inflamatory; now we know she was moderating her views. Scary.
2) Obama opens says he is friends with a man who was with the Weather Underground, a radical who helped set bombs in the USA in the 1960s. Hmm.
3) Obama hears Wright week after week, attends church, marries there, baptizes his kids there, and then TAKES his kids to church there each week to hear . . . hate speech like this?
4) Knowing all this, Obama just a year ago donated more than $20,000 to this "church."
The list like this is damningly endless.
Be honest. Ask yourself this: If you had a teacher or religious leader who preached like this, and you disagreed with some or many of these hideous views, would you have him marry you? Baptize your kids? Act as your spiritual leader? Join your campaign as an advisor? Praise him publicly? Quote him positively in your book? Donate thousands to him?
No--unless you actually believed much and perhaps all of what he says. Obama is a F-R-A-U-D.
These Rev. Wright tapes just handed Hillary's campaign an M1A1 Abrams tank to blow Obama's Campaign out of the water. I hope she uses it.
I am voting for McCain. At least I know he loves his country.
As Julie in Vt.(1:07)noticed, there is an unusual sameness in a lot of these posts seen on other blogs. Some are identical. Looks very orcestrated to me. They've done 'Native Costume', Hussein-Hussein-Hussein,BHO's religion..."As far as I know",and Ms.Ferarro's rants. Now this. WHAT'S NEXT??
Listen people calm down and listen as I inform you what is going on with this Pastor Wright issue. Please follow carefully and think about it before you judge. What Pastor Wright is preaching does not come as a shock to me at all because this is what these pastors/preachers are doing all over the country. You wonder why there is so much hate in people that go to church every week. Just go on You tube and see the clips of Black Pastors in Houston,Atlanta, Florida, New York and all over the country spewing hate and suspicion amoung their followers and parishners. It's only the intelligent and the educated can tell what is truth and what is fiction and hate. The rest are just followers because there is a lacking in there self worth and believe and they are weak and are looking for an excuse for why life is bad for them. They do not go to church to find solutions or to find God, they want an excuse so week after week they will sit there and listen to this pastors pump them with hate and lies as an excuse. The rest like myself and the good Senator start to move away from the church slowly, but surely. Remember this is still your community and the people in the church have at this point become like family that you see outside the church on various missions that have to do with the community. The pastor not only married you, but baptized you and your children but as the years go by you notice that he continues this downward spiral so you start to miss church a few Sundays. Now the black church is powerful and the members are strong believers in the church. One Sunday that your not there they will start calling you at home and at the office...asking why they didn't see you at church on Sunday. You will make an excuse like you were out of town or sick what ever the excuse is you cannot tell those old women in the church that you didn't go because the Pastor is crazy. You can't come off as if you are better then them and the Pastor. So you stay and slowly over the years you begin to sneak off to another church on the other side of the city, even though technically you are still a member of the church. Black Pastors know this and it angers them about the educated parish goers, it angers them that no matter how much hate they spew or crutches they insist upon us we always resist. We have our own minds and our own ideas about the world and we do not require them to inform us on anything other then the love of Jesus and our need to love each other. Black pastors fear that if more of their parish members think like the educated blacks then who will listen to them, who will depend on them for knowledge and how can they control the message. So like Sen. Obama, I just patiently waited for Wright to retire and move on and over the years I have gone to his church less and less and without hurting the feelings of the other members I have continued to live my life with love and effection for my fellow man. There are other Sermons (thousands of them) that Pastor Wright has given that are beautiful, inspitational and loving of mankind and these are the sermons that makes many of us hold our opinions to ourselves and wait it out. There are sermones that speak to the heart of humanity and you would never believe that they come from the mouth of the same man.
There is this disconnect between our churches and the world and at times I think the Pastors need that disconnect in order to continue and survive. In a way they fear progress and resolution more then the white part of America. They fear unity because with unity and understanding between the races, it makes them useless. They will become a thing of the past. They have managed to hold off until now and with the rise of Obama, they know it will be their fall. I know it's hard to understand ot come to terms with this thinking but if you put aside everything else and look at the people and timing you will know what most of us in the African-American community know for sure. Farrakan, endorses Obama, three days before the Ohio debates in front of 20,000 young black poor people. Why? knowing that he is controversial and not accepted by mainstream what benefit does he get. He wanted Obama to have to address his endorsement and to reject him. Sen.Obama and Farrakan have clashed on issues in Chicago and they do not get along. So her is Farrakan standing infront of the world saying " I have come to Praise Obama, not bury him". Actually what he came to do is bury Obama and he knew that his unsolicited and unwanted endorsement would do just that. Here is another case, Pastor wright is retiring and now they decide to sell his tapes of his sermons. Why now? Why not next year when it will make more sense as the one year anniversary of his retirement. Why give an interview to a news paper last year saying "Once all this information about me comes out Barack's Jewish support will dry up so fast". Why release all this information now to a public who would not be able to understand the Pastors in our communities who we have written off "as crazy uncles". Because Obama becoming president is the last thing that leaders like Farrakan and Wright want to see in America. It ends their control on the communities and there excuses will no longer hold water and the poor in the communit will not need hate to stay hopeful they can look to Obama for a voice and guidance. They will not need Farrakan to tell them that a black man can't make in America, because they will point to Obama. They cannot say that America is unfair to the black man, because these people will look to Obama, these leaders will be reduced to meaningless old relics within a community that they have controlled for decades. They have controlled the poor African American and helped to keep them poor and they will effectively loose any power they have. So Obama winning means they loose and they are not prepared to do that.
To those who think the Clinton campaign has been behind this in ANY way, then please explain why they didn't unleash this firestorm back before Obama got 100 delegates ahead? No, this crash and burn is entirely Obama's to own.
As a longtime ardent supporter of Sen. Obama, I am thoroughly appalled by this.
This has all the hallmarks of an utter DISASTER for the thus far sparkling campaign.
No one can be elected in America with this kind of baggage.
Supposedly we reside in the 'greatest country in the world', but we no longer have politicians whom we can respect and trust.
I don't think the Dem's, unless Obama gets slaughtered in Pennsylvania, will give the nomination to Hillary. Blacks will never forgive them for it. I'll bet the Dem's are going to gamble that the media (well, they media THEY like: NYTIMES, MSNBC etc.) will continue to provide cover to him on this matter. There is no spin they can put on this to make it go away. In any case, John McCain can uncork the champagne.
Another disturbing aspect to the videos is the unanmaity of support Wright was getting from his parishioners. If Obama disapproves of what this man was preaching, it looks like he might be the only one.
Obama fans.....
I don't understand how any American could vote for a candidate, for the highest position in our country, who has 20 years relationship with a minister who preaches hatred, racism and anti-amercian political rhetoric, etc. Obama's minister beliefs are no better than the terrorist we are fighting overseas. If Obama would completely denounce and reject him now it would be too late. I think Obama should drop out of the race, distance himself from his pastor, church and prove to the people of American his passion to bring the RIGHT change to America. Maybe we will re-evaluate you in 8 years. He has spent half of his adult life with a man with these horrific beliefs! Don't tell me nothing rub off on Obama!
Lesley "And now that a black man speaks his mind it becomes off limits, "scary"."
Are you kidding me Lesley? Did Obama's camp not just throw bricks at Geraldine Ferraro, a white woman, who spoke her mind? Geraldine wasn't even attacking the black race, she was making a true statement. Wright(I refuse to call him Reverend, he does not deserve that honor) is a racist and hate filled!! THERE IS NO EXCUSE FOR IT!!
Obama has the audacity to sit & listen to Wright for over 20 years & then try to say he is for all! Audacity of hope?? Wanting change?? Obama can keep his change in his pocket, I don't want it!!
Someone remind me again how this spliced-together collection of very old clips taken out of context and leaked to FoxNews is NOT a hitjob?
Certainly not news. More like an attack ad posing as "news". I would think that media types could tell the difference.
I agree that Obama has to get on top of this. ButsSome of the reaction is just because the guy is angry and black. White angry preachers seem to get a pass. (Or did I miss FoxNews doing a big expose on Hagee and his Catholic-bashing riffs?) I doubt the guy was this angry for 20 years. That is what "out of context" means.
Interestingly, a McCain spokesman seemed to defend Obama:
"I don't think Sen. McCain wants to get in the middle of a discussion about Sen. Obama's former pastor, or his faith. He believes that people who endorse you, people who befriend you, are entitled to their own views, but you are not personally held accountable. That when someone endorses you or befriends you, they are embracing your views - the candidate's views - not the other way around."
1) Is that because of McCain's Hagee problem?
2) Does this mean that a third party GOP group made the video, or was it the Clinton camp that leaked it?
Has anyone given any thought that this racist kook could very well be directly advising the next President of the United States?
And you can say with a straight face that this DOESN'T MATTER?
This is NOT the same as Farrakhan endorsing him. This man, in Barack's own words, is a "ROLE MODEL" and "SPIRITUAL ADVISOR" to him.
How can we seriously believe that Obama can disavow the rantings of this lunatic when he has freely attended them for TWENTY YEARS, been MARRIED by him and had his kids BAPTIZED by him?
Answer? You CAN'T.
America - wake up before you become - AMERIKA!!
"SOCIALISM WE CAN BELIEVE IN!"
Everybody with a brain knows that Bush and his cronies were behind 9/11 anyway. Come on Building 7 just crumbles into a nice little pile because of a few sparks, image of a plane hitting the pentagon is never released (cause it was a missile). The world trade center was obviously a controlled demolition. Hell half the so called highjackers are still alive and living in various muslim countries. We have a chance to elect a great man and turn the page on all this bullshit. I thought his sermons were sweet, I might atually go to church if there was one like that in my neighborhood.
Obama 08
What kind of "preacher" is this guy anyway?
He's taking the Lord's name in vain on the pulpit? Where is it scriptural to blaspheme? He's a liar and a hypocrite, and he clearly doesn't have any respect for God.
Gee, it's starting to look as though the Democrats are heading for a heck of a crack-up.
I have only one thing to say...pass the popcorn.
I am an African American who voted for Clinton in the primary and will vote for her in the general should she get the nomination. I voted and will vote for her because of her experience to be president among all the candidates democrat or republican. I am sure there are other factors i could consider, however, I based my decision on a relevant factor, her experience.
The experience of slavery and the subsequent Jim Crow treatment of African American in this country has left a deep pychological scars that will take generation to heal. It is deep scar that Pastor Wright is addressing. I do not for one minute that the pastor "hates". He is merely reflecting the view of those he share common ancestry.
To anyone who has suffered any kind of abuse in their life, it stay with you.
Yeah, any preacher who says "God D* Anybody" in a sermon is a false prophet, clearly. He's preaching hate, not love. God does not damn anyone. To ask Him to do so is blasphemous.
Wait, I forgot. What exactly is racist or hateful about what the church says? Is being afro-centric racist? I think its outdated and lame, but culturally oriented self-support groups are not racist or chauvinistic per se by any stretch of the imagination. There are a heck of a lot of black churches with cheesy Kente-cloth banners and who prattle on about saving the diaspora on Sunday. If we are going to stamp all these with the R word we have a lot of work ahead of us here and it won't be pretty.
God-** America!!
Now we know why Obama will not wear an American Flag pin on his lapel.
I find it interesting that conservatives and Dixiecrats keep dredging up the relationship between Obama and his pastor. Do they not realize they are doing him a favor? Given that some public opinion polls say that as much as 13 percent of the electorate still thinks Barack Obama is a Muslim, the more focus on his Christian pastor the more that smear gets permanently erased.
No chance that Obama wins the democratic nomination now. NONE. The DNC is not dumb enough to send an anti-american racist against McCain, they will be DESTROYED
Obama takes his kids to listen to hate sermons every Sunday. Grooming his kids to be wacky wacks. Obama is an unfit father and therefore and unfit candidate.
Right. God does NOT "damn" anyone. They damn themselves by their choices. I have to question the quality of the messages that have been preached there for 20 years, since they're being taught that God is in the damning business. No one who believes in such a perverted bastardization of Christian doctrine can have a close relationship with a God who literally IS love.
This man (Wright) has a dark and bitter soul. True Christians should pray for him.
Since his keynote at the last Democratic national convention, I have allowed myself to be swept up by the Obama experience. I voted for him. I have donated to his campaign. I have even campaigned for him.
And while I would still vote for him in a general, there is no way he's electable now. No way.
The more I know about Obama the person, the less genuine Obama the politician is to me.
I have the distinct impression that many Americans agree with Obama's message of change and polital reform, yet some, for whatever reason, are not willing to embrace the creator and deliverer of that message. Many white Americans, especially in rural areas such as parts of Ohio, have said point blank that they simply can not vote for a Black candidate like Obama --regardless of his views on the economy, education, healthcare, lobbyists and special interest groups, etc...I just hope that Americans will not be so slanted by race and thoughless that they toss this election away-as we have seen in the past. Ohio, for example,is the home of a significant working class population. Soldiers who have died fighting in Iraq were drawn predominately from the woking class population centers that resemble that of working class rural Ohio, yet these very Ohioans voted for the main proponent of the war killing their children: Bush. Now many Americans complain of a loss of jobs due to NAFTA, but many of these same Americans voted for Hillary, one of NAFTA's designers. I sometimes do not understand how Americans think! Now America has the opportnity to vote for a candidate of change: one who has not been perverted or currupted by washington, who does not want our children to die in a war that should have never been authorized, who is neither saddled by obligation nor the payback of favors to special interest groups, and one who will not dismantle our economy by charging into war with Iran. I am reading in these blogs, that the changes America needs should take a back seat to our need to critisize Obama for his association with a minister who has views we do not like. Again I say do not be dupped into disgarding a great candidate because of racial insensitivity. What counts are the main issues we all face as Americans (economy, healthcare, and so on)and how these catasrophic dilemmas will be solved. Do not be confused. If you vote for Hillary, you are voting for Bill. If you vote for McCain, you are voting for a consrvative with a very liberal view regarding war, if you vote for Obama, you are voting for the future.
If you think that video was bad, look at this one. He is not attacking white rich Republicans, but white rich liberals in his own party, Hillary specifically.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=hAYe7MT5BxM
I do not mean this to be racist I am merely pointing out a flaw in the pastor.
He claims that the whites are holding the black culture back. Im sorry sir, but you are doing it to yourselves and this is a prime example. Any time a black man/woman begins to rise up, you yourselves try to bring them down and attack them.
Look at you attacking Colin Powell and Condeleeza Rice. And now because you needed to sell a couple of damn DVD's you have taken down a man that we truly have adored. Were that $500 from your videos really worth it? Your selfishness and bigotry have brought this upon Obama, and YOU have held him back.
Shame on you for calling yourself a pastor.
James... FYI the tapes are for sale thru the Church. Fox openly said they purchased the tapes.
We all can see Barack Obama and his wife being fooled by Rev. Wright on one or two Sundays. But none of us can see how they associated with this clown and buffoon for twenty years!
What does this say about Obama's judgment and temperment? Sadly, we now all know the answer to this question.
To say that we brought 9-11 upon ourselves (meaning white America) and showing absolute disrespect to the families and friends of the 3000 who lost their lives is one of the most abhorrent things I have ever heard. For Obama to be directly associated with an individual who would utter such blatant, hurtful, provocative hatrespeak is shameful.
This sheds more light on why his wife says what she says about our country and why he refuses to wear an American flag pin on his lapel or to hold his hand over his heart during the National Anthem. It is obvious that he has a better filter than his wife when it comes to speaking from his heart about our country but his 20 year involved association with Wright is evidence enough for this Independent to look elsewhere.
I am only glad this has come out now before it would have been too late.
Wow, it doesn't take long for a Black man to be called a racist, go figure.
DO WE REALLY KNOW WHO BARACK OBAMA IS?
These revelations have me in as much shock and accompanying disgust as the Spitzer matter.
Indeed the principal reason that Spitzer had little {no} support was because of the profound hypocrisy.
How could Sen. Obama present himself as an inspirational uniter whilst simultaneously forging and maintaining a deep relationship with such a despicable 'man of the cloth' ?
I am happy to say that the majority of the American people have more common sense than the majority of the posters in this thread.
Has a single one of you ever visited Trinity United Church of Christ? Has any of you ever read or listened to the entirety of one of the Rev. Jeremiah Wright's sermons?
I suspect not. Until you know what you're talking about on the basis of first-hand experience I respectively suggest that you lower your decibel level.
THIS could be the end of Obama! Thank God he hasn't secured the nomination yet! The media should have overcovered this before. Someone who you have known for 20 years who married you and baptised your two kids is NOT someone you barely know and don't agree with. BIG TROUBLE if the media keeps digging. Obama can not win in November is that has been revealed so far is true.
I figured they'd find some way to marginalize him, ghettoize him. I just couldn't figure out how all of a sudden, America's ready for a A/A president.
Unless you can point to an instance of Jerry Falwell saying of David Duke, for instance, (as Wright said of Farrakhan) that "He brings a perspective that is helpful and honest," and presenting him with a lifetime achievement award (such as the one Wright presented to Farrakhan), your comparison of Wright to Falwell is nothing more than an attempt to lessen the egregiousness of Wright's comments by smearing, in the same breath, a conservative Republican. And, no, there is no comparison either between Wright's call upon God to damn America and Falwell's belief that America was being punished for committing acts that the Bible forbids.
Nope... sorry guys, this ain't the same.
If McCain (or any Republican) went to Jerry Fallwell's church, said he was a mentor, visited often and were freinds... had his kids baptized by him, was married by him, and ws "inspired" by him to write his book (and even got the title from him)....
That Republican would be freaking chastized and run out on a rail. Yes, you know it.
Oooohhh.... but now that it's a Democrat getting the heat, we make excuses! Like the one on Daily Kos: "He's a black man... Let him have his own views in his church."
Excuses... excuses...
This is WORSE than McCain playing nice with a preacher... this is a guy that is a MENTOR to Obama.
Religion is bring this country down....not just Baracks...all When are pepole going to open their eyes to what science is telling us ...the truth....there isn't a GOD. Live with it.
this whole controversy is interesting in how white people are reacting. I am the only one who sees this as the norm in the black community, contempt and hatred for America and especially whites, or should i say european americans. Has the media and the so called main stream media brainwashed Whites so much with "white guilt" and self hatred that they dont see the contempt and hatred for them? The Obamanation his wife and pastor are so typical; look at rap songs, what barry bonds says, and other so called black celebrities.Even better look at the statistics of black crime against whites. How many white on black crimes are racist attacks? Yet; look and see how many black on white crimes are not considered racially motivated? NONE
Will the obamanation get a pass for the media? Probably! But not from the people in this country, this is the best thing that had happened in a long time, i hope it opens a few eyes Eamon
I have been searching for a conservative racist blog on which to post derogatory opinion. At last I have found one...McCain for president!
Everyone needs to take a DEEP breath and CHILL!!!
All of this controversy is old news at worst and explanable once Obama sits down for a disclosure interview with Russert or the like.
Here's what I would suggest to all the good 'Christians' that are so outraged at the cherry picked out of context statements from Pastor Wright ...Visit his (former) church, listen to a sermon, meet the congregation and then formulate your own mind. Stop being so damn reactionary...The people of IL wouldn't have voted Sen. Obama into office if he wasn't worthy of leading all the people of his state regardless of background.
The thing you must remember is that this was all flammed by that bigot idiot Sean Hannity and Fox News who are laughing at the Democrates for reactting to their mischief.
The Neo Cons want Obama to win, but they want him muddied going into the general election...Well, mission accomplished!
Obama'08! (Muddied in all)
Wright never said that America deserved the 9/11 attack or that we brought it upon ourselves. He did recount that the US is in a violent world and that we are not a pacifist bystander. We are not Switzerland. We use violence as an instrument of National policy. He is correct that we nuked Nagasaki and Hiroshima. Unstated by him we killed 10's of thousands of innocent children of Japan. In our minds it was a justified cost of war. Many in other parts of the world may disagree. We are involved in a violent struggle with the jihadists, we were attacked. We did not desrver to be attacked, but we should not have been surprised. I think this is what Wright was saying. The radical islamists viewed us as the enemy, we were fighting them over there, why should we be shocked that the violence came back home to us. It is a price of war.
Here is listed below is Obama's response to his friend Rev. Wright. I find it to be a weak response from a weak man:
No Plans for (Pastor) Wright to step Down MSNBC ^ | 3/14/08 | Mark Chudsperth Posted on 03/14/2008 1:35:41 PM PDT by pissant The Obama campaign says they have no plans to ask the Rev. Jeremiah Wright to step down from a campaign spiritual advisory committee. They're stressing that this committee -- the African American Religious Leadership Committee -- was a laundry list of people associated with the campaign and didn't really do anything. The group never actually met.
They say Wright has no formal role on the campaign (unlike some others on this committe who do have a formal role in faith-based outreach). They say he was included mostly out of respect to his long relationship with Obama.
Aides say he was not present during the Christmas 2007 sermon or the post-Sept. 11 sermon. They weren't sure about some of the others in question, are not sure when the last time the two spoke, and they stressed they don't speak frequently.
Ross, thanks for revealing how cynical and hypocritical you and your claque here really are.
This campaign season is showing more eloquently than any of your sophistries ever could just where this nation is being led by the notion that literal-minded piety must be observed at all costs when we are regaled by the whack-job theories of batsh*t-crazy religious gurus, be they Wright, Hagee, or your crazy uncle Jimmy. What a perfect vacuum of reason.
And shame on you for sucking all the rest of the air out of this suffocating clusterf*ck.
OK, Swiss, you tell us:
When (precisely) and in what full context did Wright "call upon God to damn America"?
You don't know, do you?
Obama's pastor is a racist, anti-semite. Obama's wife hates America. Obama's mother hated America.
It's clear that Obama is hiding despicable, horrible beliefs under his pleasant mask. Such a man is morally unfit to be president.
You can judge a man by the company he keeps. Obama's evil racism has been exposed for us all to see. He should be judged accordingly.
Barack + Obama = Con Artist
Sure.... this guy may not say these things in every sermon, but if my preacher said ONE TIME that the U.S. "invented" AID to kill black people, I'm outta there.
It should only take ONCE.
If it takes more than that, you're an idiot and complacent in the act.
Visited a church once, Preacher snickered how Catholics were going to Hell. I left, never went back either. It was not a Church for me and my values. Catch my drift?
I'm not proud of america too, and I'm white and served. You have to earn love, respect and the thought you have to be proud of the USA. That has to be earned....not just because I was born here.
This is NOT as simple as just writing it off as "politics of association" folks. This is just the latest in a string of troubling associations that is bringing Mr Obama's judgement into more and more question. That's the point here. He's been "associated" with Wright for 20 years, he's been "assocotiated" with Anton Rezko for nearly 20 years, he's been "associated" with members of the weather underground, and so on...
Can you NOT see the reality of his and our (as voters) situation here? Do we really want to put the future of our country's economy and our safety and security into this guy's hands?
Michelle Obama most certainly does NOT hate America, neither did Stanley Ann Dunham Soetoro!
Where do you folks pick up this ignorant and distorted garbage? You seem to be as credulous as the people you're railing against.
Leyasu- America has been ready from an African-American president for quite some time. Nobody really cares about Obama's race, much to preachers like Wright's chagrin. What people do care about is that Obama had a close personal relationship with, and was mentored by a preacher, who is radically Anti-American. While said preacher has every right to say such things, his protege (of sorts...Obama was there for TWENTY years) has no business running to be President of this great nation. And now the cats out of bag....ditto on pass the popcorn.
Hyde:
He said we shouldn't say "God bless America", we should say "God ** America."
Why are you trying to defend this hater? You look as silly as those that defend idiots like Fallwell.
Oh, I forgot, you are hypnotized by the "hope" of Obama. Facts don't matter... You would vote for him if he cited Hitler as an inspiration. You'd make an excuse like: "Well, it was out of context" or "People make mistakes."
Keep making excuses, go ahead... We know you will, no matter what you find out.
Freedom of speech...He can say what he wants...you can vote how you want... All I see here is flocks of sheep controlled by the media, religion and the grand old USA.
So it turns out that Obama's pastor is a little nutty. But what does this have to do with the candidate?
McCain's potential running mate, Mitt Romney, is part of a church with a murky, very recent, segregationist past. Has anyone suggested that Mitt Romney shared those past views of the Mormon Church?
And John McCain actually sought the friendship of Bob Jones III when he was running against Bush 4 years ago. And he now tries to curry favors with his right-wing friends, who bash him behind his back as being too 'liberal'.
How easily all of you are controlled by what is reported.... Educate yourself before you condemn one's words? Sheep I tell you sheep.
"That has to be earned....not just because I was born here."
Then get the h*ll out!
You don't love your country because it hasn't GIVEN you enough, or hasn't GIVEN you what you want.
You are a leech! What happened to the ol' "Ask not what your country can do for you? As whay YOU can do for your country!"
Forgot about that, no???
Race is very fertile ground in America for divide & conquer politics. You can see how easy it is for our slimeballs to exploit it. But at some point, and I think it's happening, with Obama's help, Americans will need to look themselves in the mirror.
"So it turns out that Obama's pastor is a little nutty."
And I guess Jerry Fallwell was a "little nutty" too, huh? Thought not!
This is a systemic problem for black Democratic candidates for national office. To advance far enough in their party to get the nomination, they have to not merely refrain from denouncing, but willingly and openly associate with hate-mongering creeps like pastor Rev. Wright of Senator Obama’s Chicago Church. But such associations are fatal in the general election.
Don't bring up race!!!
It's Obama's preacher that is racist. Nobody else.
I cannot believe their are people here calling others racist because they reveal someone who IS racist.
That's the old liberal line.... if you want someone to shut up, call them a racist. AND IGNORE THE REAL RACIST -- the sc*mbag preacher of hate.
I served for this Country... So I gave to it. Then I educated myself not from the media, not from what we are told on the TV. WAKE UP!!
Who is this THEY you obamainacs are talking about trying to bring down Obama. Did this they force the preacher to say these things? Did this they sell the video tapes to his public? Did this they release a "Best-of"tape of this guy? Did this they hide it from the public (which right now my friends CNN and MSNBC is doing a great job of doing)? Who is this they? This they is you.
Andrei-Conservatives don't bash him behind his back. We bash him to his face, and he's still pure gold compared to Obama.
And people did suggest that of Romney, who publicly talked about it on numerous occasions and spoke of walking in civil right marches.
Ster,
I'm not defending anything or anyone at this point, but unlike you, apparently, I'm not ready to judge until I know for a fact that alleged statements were actually made, not just blabbered about by someone on the Internet.
Your saying Mr. Wright said something is not sufficient for me.
When? Where? Under what circumstances? Full context?
Do you know? Do you care?
Ster,
Your kidding... right???
"Has anyone suggested that Mitt Romney shared those past views of the Mormon Church?"
No. Because he doesn't. The media was ALL OVER Romney because of his religion. And he probably lost because of it.
Gee, I am sorry that Obama is getting heat for his... BOOHOO! It happened to Romney and with all the media attention on him, they did not find his preacher shouting hate about Jews and accusing the gov. of investing AIDS to kill black people, etc....
Romney probably lost the race because of his religion, and nobody said anything like this. Heck, Romney's church seemed quite tame.
Yeah, I know... it sucks when the media investigate something on a Democrat that doesn't look good. That didn't used to happen. Heck, the media JUST found this out? That's B.S. This has been around on the blogs for months... the media just couldn't ignore it anymore. Sorry lefties, they tried to bury it, but couldn't.
The media got rid of my candidate (well, the least worst one that i would still vote for). Now, they'll get rid of yours.
Stop biaching! This happens ALL OF THE TIME to the conservative candidates! How's it feel?
Welcome to the world conservatives have lived in for 40 years. GET OVER IT!
Negate Ster (sorry)
Hyde Parker,
Your kidding... right???
Hyde:
Just go to freaking YouTube and search for them. Many of them have been out there (on blogs) for MONTHS!
Heck, just GOOGLE IT!
You want proof that he said these things? LOOK IT UP!>!>!> There's something called YouTube and search engines.
You will find dozens.
CAN OBAMA REALLY TRY TO DISTANCE HIMSELF FROM THIS? CAN WE BE FOOLED AGAIN?
I know what it is!!!
It must all be lies PLANTED by the VAST RIGHT-WING CONSPIRACY!
/sarcasm
:0)
This has been out for over year....anyone of you that are suprised by this are ignorant. Look, all the candidates have skeletons and they are easy to find once you look for them....so does, religions (Christians especially), our government the great US of A. Keep looking at my messages with a blind eye like all of you do to everything else. And to all of you who love Hillary....if you look close enough you will find hate coming from her own camp...racial hate, false hate, the worst kind straight lies...spreading false accusations about Obama. Muslim, Drug Dealer....but you all already know that don't you. Just type in google Hillary Campain and muslim in google... look with your eyes open sheep.... funny you condemn others but not yourself.
So, it's OK because he wasn't present during one inflammatory speech.
Barack Obama has not called a single policy hearing for the Senate Foreign Relations Subcommittee on European Affairs since becoming its chair in January 2007.
And that's explainable too, right? There's some foreign policy credentials for you...
MIA (Missing in Action for those of you who don't know what that means)
My jaw dropped. I can see uneducated, ignorant people falling for this stuff (like uneducated, ignorant whites fall for David Duke) but two Harvard educated lawyers?! And listening to it for 20 years. Its disgusting. And they take their children to his services!!! If this was a conservative white candidate, he wouldn't last another day in the race.
Please see the following address to read Obamas response -
www.huffingtonpost
I get a kick out of those that say that this message is cherry picked and not to judge the church before you go there and listen.
Well, I got news for you, I cant go there because I am WHITE. They wont let me in! They are a black church only, look it up. Also, this isnt the only sermon of him spewing his hatred. There are DOZENS just like it all over youtube! You schmuck, you don't think we know how to use the Internet?
Educate yourself.......
Wow, Barack sent an email to distance himself. He must really feel strongly about it. Pathetic....and you want this guy to take over our White House. Will he reply to that 3am call with an email?
"If this was a conservative white candidate, he wouldn't last another day in the race."
So that means that piece of human garbage who captured the Republican nomination is dropping out? It's not like any rational being was going to vote for that crazy old coot anyway, so he's better off just shuffling his way to his retirement home.
What's that you say? John McCain, who's about as honest as a thief isn't going to answer questions about his kooky pastor, ol' fat ass Hagee? The man spews out more hate in one speech then the dimbulbs from redstate do in a week. Please let McCain keep Hagee close, because we all know that America just loves its crackpot preachers and its senile Senators.
Does Obama really thing the American people are that stupid? He can't recant 20 years of attendance. His response is weak in many ways, not the least of which is that he never says what he disagrees with. All he says is "I vehemently disagree and strongly condemn the statements that have been the subject of this controversy". I hope that Democrats are smarter than he gives them credit.
Amen, Jim.
Obama's very direct & unequivocal statement on www.huffingtonpost should be required reading before any of you posts here another time.
Minds open. Case closed.
This Wright scandalette is more a test of the voter's and the media's willingness to pause and try to understand the whole picture.
This church is run by and for poor black folks. Obama is there because these are his constituents. He feels a strong bond with them, although I'm sure he doesn't agree with everything the Rev. Wright says. Obama understands their anger: if anyone has the right to say "God damn the USA" it's the poor black folks. (I hope this isn't in question.)
Now, let's look at the post 9/11 sermon. If you remember those days, you know that Wright wasn't the only one questioning if our neglect of the Palestinian problem brought this upon us. A lot of people thought that, until it became clear Bin Laden was behind it.
Obama shouldn't try to laugh this off, or "denounce and reject". Bringing people together means teaching them to co-exist with others who have different points of view. That should be Obama's legacy to the country.
Well, do we have to endure Hillary, the war supporter, the status quo, and the continuation of the current politics, because Barrack Obama's preacher, preaching to the choir, on the South Side of Chicago, made inexcusable statements?
Has Obama said or campaigned on anything like that? We should just throw a cold blanket on the enthusiam of our youth and turnout so Hillary can wear the Commander n Chief Pantsuit?
Take a breath.
I haven't read all of these posts... but the one that observed that the GOP would make mincemeat of Obama now... rings true.
The GOP has plenty to go after Obama on without Mr. Wright. His thin resume for the Presidency, his voting pattern in the Illinois Senate, Tony Rezko relationship, lack of foreign policy expertise etc. You throw Mr. Wright into the mix and I believe that Obama will get slaughtered in the general election. I've been saying for the last 2 months that I believe the GOP prefers to run against Obama as they think they'll clean his clock.
Can you imagine the Commercial ads the GOP henchman are conjuring up right now. Fast cuts of Mr. Obama with comments that Mr. Wright has been his mentor, a close 20 year relationship, regularly attending Wright's church... interspersed with fast cuts of Mr. Wright and his questionable comments... praise of Louis Farrakan, 9/11 victims bringing it on themselves etc. They would be devastating to Obama.
Add that the GOP will probably target Michelle Obama also and things get additionally problematic for Obama. And what if the Rezko case brings additional problematic revelations for Mr. Obama.
I'll bet there are plenty of delegates/super delagates mulling all this over. I truly don't see Mr. Obama as the Democrats best chance for the Presidency. Say what you will about Clinton, she still has a core 48% or so who will wote for her, so she needs to garner a couple of points to get her over the top. I know it changes with Nader in the mix but likely not by much. She's tough as nails and could handle McCain and the GOP. I don't think Mr. Obama is nearly as tough and he'll wilt under GOP assault. And no pun intended, Lord knows there is plenty to go after Obama with.
Look at yorself before you condemn others.. bet no one here has hated the other even though you really don't know them or what they stand for. You just hate because they are different than you.
Jerry Falwell never said we should say "God Damn America". He never said the US was responsible for 911. It's one thing to say SOME Americans are evil. It's entirely different to say AMERICA is evil.
Obama is, at best, a very stupid man. Case closed.
The DNC cannot let Obama be our nomination. He is damaged goods and the republicans are licking their chops right now. I gaurantee he lost 1/3 of Hillary supporters today who were going to vote for him in the general election.
He lost me. Shameless
I believe that if McCain had gone to Hagee's church for 20 years (or Rod Parsley's) and had put either gentleman on his campaign in some capacity as Obama did Mr. Wright, McCain would have a LOT to answer for in the media.
Of course, you cannot control who endorses you, so if a Democrat get Farrakhan's endorsement or a Republican gets a KKK endorsement, you expect the candidates to issue a simple statement regarding their disagreements and move on.
Mr. Obama can DEFINITELY control who is made a part of his campaign, however. The fact that he has been a part of Mr. Wright's church for 20 years means the "I didn't know he stood for that before I put him on my campaign" defense is simply not available to Obama. How are we to interpret Wright's placement by Obama on his campaign staff as anything other than at least tacit endorsement of Mr. Wright's views? At best, this move was a cynical act, attempting to bring those who agree with Mr. Wright while keeping the candidate's hands clean. At worst, this is what the Obamas actually believe about America, and putting Wright on the campaign was endorsement by Mr. Obama of Mr. Wright.
"They" are Clinton supporters and Republicans, the people who politik that way. "They" both want to see Clinton as the nominee. She has a built in 50% negatives, she voted for the War, which takes the issue off the table in the General for us if she's nominated. Stay calm progressives. Don't let them divide us, again.
Unfortunately, this matter has enormous potential to fatally damage the Obama campaign. And I daresay, his entire political future.
It won't go away because the candidate denounces it on the Huffington blog. How does one denounce a close friend, confidante and mentor of twenty years ?
To be the President of the USA, one has to have a LOVE for the country and its citizenry. It matters not if you're black, white or other. This pastor obviously despises, hates, loathes our great country. What are we teaching our children in church today ?
The hypocrisy is palpable and very similar to the Spitzer controversy. One cannot be one thing publicly and another when away from the light of public scrutiny. One cannot claim the mantle of inspiration, unifier and simultaneously share the intellectual fellowship of such an odious figure. After all, Rev. Wright was the source of the name of Obama's very first book !
As an Independent, I was like many here excited about this campaign. I do not agree with quite a lot of what Obama proposes, but we do need a POSITIVE CHANGE in this country. Hence, millions of us marched with our dollars, energy and votes. Now it all seems to be rapidly disintegrating !
Furthermore, this cannot be blamed on the Clinton gang; nor Fox; nor the VRWC. Obama owns this hook, line and sinker.
Also it now opens the door to proving quite harmful to any future candidates, no matter their persuasion. For example, Mitt Romney can now figure why he also can never be POTUS. One's beliefs go to the core of one's being and affects one's decisionmaking process.
I sympathize with Obama. I have been going to Klan meeting for 20 years. I had the Grand Dragon marry my wife and I and bless our two kids, I appointed the GD to a position in my biz, and people have the audacity to think I don’t disagree with all of the repugnant things the GD thinks and says. The audacity of people.
Honestly stop blaming this on republicans, clinton supporters, whites, blacks, latinos, females or "THEY". Obama has brought this on himself. He is a smart man you cannot claim today was the first time he heard these comments.
Blame your candidate guys
Sean, this statement of yours: " How are we to interpret Wright's placement by Obama on his campaign staff as anything other than at least tacit endorsement of Mr. Wright's views?"
is an absolute dirty lie
Hey everybody, for the last 14 months, radio talk show host have been telling us that America is not yet Brazil, meaning that American cannot vote for barrack Obama. To their credit, Americans allover the country, has time and again proven the opposite; they voted for Obama beyond belief. However, the republican machine is no way ready to stop screwing America up and they have all their weapons brandished, come whatever may. After the Reagan administration, it is impossible for the Republican Party to win a presidential. Of course you have to ask me why they have won three of them. Great question. Let�s see how. In 1988 bush one wasn't gonna win but with the almighty dirty politics he did win. The regrettable thing is that, as we hesitated to vote for him he did exactly what you feared the most. The country went backward. Bush two, Karl Rove had to throw the nastiest mud in the world to burry McCain under SC's land. What we is the worst president in American history. How do you like where the economy is going? So Obama supporters out there, you are counted by millions, you are excited, you are energized, you are great patriots and you rightly believe that Obama can make a positive difference in this country. Question: why in the world are we standing still instead of stand up for we believe is right and needed. Remember fear is the common currency of the Karl Rove politics. Some of you think that what's going on in the media; especially on Sean Hannity's talk show has something to with the pastor not liking his country. You are so wrong. Here is the real story: Karl rove strategy. Attack your opponent's strength. In his case barrack Obama's ability to inspire the entire country. His message of hope, unity, and hard work to achieve what you believe and know is possible in America. Despite that in all his speeches he always mentioned that his story is only possible in America, for some people it doesn't a thing. But it does to me. They will say he is not patriotic, he associate with anti-Semite and all kinds of crap. The truth is, look beside you, if you had to be judged by the person you ever meet see or know, we should all go straight to hell. Sean Hannity knows that very well, but he's a disciple of Karl Rove. He believes that even if you've been fed with enough garbage for the last twenty or so year, you may still have some room for more. Why do you think Karl Rove quit his job in the white house? To enjoy his new found freedom of not being responsible for the failure of the administration? Dream on. The real reason is for Karl Rove and his loyal disciples to do what they do best: create unbelievable garbage and feed it to you and deliver a third term of more depressive domestic and foreign policies. I would recommend everybody who has voted for Obama to be very proud. Those who plan to vote for him, even more so. The Republican Party knows they can't win on any issues, but they fear and dirty politics impede your judgment and can cause to make the worst the decision. So be careful, and more importantly, you better start to stand up to Sean Hannity and Michael Savage. They have insulted use so much; I can't believe no body dares to call them on that. These are the same people who deceived with the McCain�s craziness due to being prisoner of war. Now of course we know that they are ready to make him president. Is he sane now? Which rehab did he go to? None. Dear friends every where, do not be carried by this extreme hurricane. If we stand strong we will win in November. If we get scared, we will not be able to get out of bed on November 3rd, upon learning that G.W.B will never leave the white house, not at least after four years. Karl is the architect of the latest attacks on barrack Obama. Sean Hannity is just the delivery guy. So don't be fooled. Sean Hannity has been laughing at us for a long time, this is our moment, and we have seized it with both hands. If we maintain a certain amount of caution, organization and determination we deserve victory. Thank you, more Obama and less bush or McCain for the same reason.
To those of you who are ever so flipped out about this matter, please think about the fact that when the far right blamed AIDS, 9/11 and Katrina on gays and lesbians, (as in: the immorality of these people actually caused the deity to strike at this country)the underlying argument was in effect to damn the US. The far right in this country still has tremendous political power despite its damning of its citizens.
When Wright uses this language, he is not striking at particular people, he is striking at particular policies. Please study some history instead of parading your ignorance. This country's foreign policy is not angelic; it's paranoid and corporate. We have endlessly deposed rulers in countries where we have oil and mineral interests (Latin America and the middle east and South Africa), where we want cheap labor (Haiti), and where we just seem to want no left wing governments because of the Cold War. Our country was partly founded on the 3/5ths compromise. Think about what this means. If it had been your great-great grandparents, perhaps you'd have had a bit of the "damn" in you too.
I see so little empathy or thoughtfulness on this thread, so little care for anything other than the seeming enjoyment of the shock value -- "You mean, a black guy could have some anger?? And a potential democratic nominee for president might understand a black man's anger?? Oh shock."
Please try to think before you spew. Think about injustice. Think about American injustice. Think about racial and economic injustice. Think about New Orleans, the millions of displaced Iraqis who bear no responsibility for the situation we've created for them. Think about the fact that we've had 7 years of an administration that has lied us into a war, lied to us about global warming, encouraged us to shop and buy Hummers and move out to the suburbs. An administration that has stripped science and careful thought from government policy, from government websites, and has championed instead ignorance through NCLB and Neil Bush's reading program. These policies may be more damning than anything Wright could come up with. We may all be headed towards global oblivion with water shortages, food shortages, and shocking levels of real violence over resources.
Think outside of your own little self-satisfied existence. And then write something a little more rational.
It is all too easy to cast condemnation for those who happen, in one way or another, to associate with a bigot.
In fact, what defines someone's character is not the absence of unseemly elements of their life; it is not the absence of those who would preach hate. It is the ability to transcend that kind of thinking, precisely when we are surrounded by it.
We are defined by our struggle to listen to those around us, who claim to be our kin, members of our community, and to reject those elements of their rhetoric, and their beliefs, that do not sit well with our convictions.
In this country, we cannot claim to be well-schooled in the challenges of race relations, unless we admit that racism, and hate are not abstract ideas. They are tied to the actions, feelings and statements of our fathers, or our mothers, or our brothers and sisters, of our best friends, and even our religious leaders; yes, even those who commit to living in the mold of Jesus Christ.
If Sen. Obama were to claim that he could transcend the politics of division, including divides of race and religion, and base that claim not on his experience, but on the absence of hateful elements in his life, people would rightfully call him naive.
I personally have had to cope with tinges of racism, that eventually grew to overtones, that are now confidently and comfortably voiced in seemingly rational overtures by members of my own family. Am I a racist because I do not shout down my father? It is a difficult question, but one I expect anyone who claims to understand the challenges we face in repairing this nation, will have faced time and again.
The real question is not why Sen. Obama kept going to church, it's how he was able to set aside any talk of "grievances," as an African-American, surrounded by those who spoke of centuries-old injustices, and instead speak in calm, even tones as he addressed the nation as a whole, not just Black America.
What unique store of conviction and courage did Sen. Obama draw from when he held back those around him, including his pastor, who called upon him to address what they perceived as egregious wrongs to the African-American community, to make that his pitch for the Presidency?
Sen. Obama chose first, before asking anyone else to, to let fall the agenda of retribution and resentment. That is why he is a believable agent of change for those who hope to move past the battles of race and religion that have endured throughout all of history, and the last few decades, despite the promise of equality and shared prosperity.
It is part of what has shaped this uniquely qualified man, who stands before us, not as a sheltered individual, but as a tested candidate who is ready to serve as our Commander in Chief.
Oboma actually makes Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton more tolorable .I can't imagine I would ever say that as well . Oboma and his beloved spiritual adviser Rev Wright are more dangerous than the Old Black Panthers ......they never wanted to President but this crowd of white haters do ! Wake up America !!!! Oboma is no more a black snake oil salesman with a law degree .
Obama is morally unfit to be a dogcatcher. He's been caught in his racist, anti-American lies. The man is a disgrace.
This message from Jeremiah Wright brought to you by the HILLARY FOR PRESIDENT campaign!
''I'm Hillary Clinton, and I approve of this ad''
Obamaniacs- BLAME YOUR CANDIDATE - noone else
It is a testament to Obama's underlying sense of decency that he has repudiated Reverend Wright's statements without denouncing or repudiating the man.
Politics is not the sum of life, even for a United States Senator. I suspect Obama's relationship with his Pastor is both muliti-faceted and meaningful. I have heard my retired Rabbi same some outlandish things in public. While I was furious, I did not quit the synagogue he served...a synagogue that my father and his friends built with their own hands.
Obama refuses to salute our flag during our national anthem. Obama refuses to wear an American flag pin and denounces those who do as being "fake patriots".
This isn't "guilt by association". Wright is simply an insight into Obama's real thought processes.
Does Obama's relationship with the pastor explain why he will not wear an American flag lapel pin or put hand over heart during the pledge of allegiance?
Does it provide insight into Michelle Obama's comments about no pride for her country?
Check out huffingtonpost.com -- there's a statement by Obama.
Thinkfirst
You write of "rational" but all you speak of is emotion. Stop "spewing" hogwash about injustice. This country has done more actual justice and good in the world than any other country ever has. And your gonna come back with "but we can make it better." While questing for heaven on earth one will only find hell. Think about it and be happy you live in such a country where comment-conversations like this are encouraged and where we are arguing with words, not guns or knives like many other parts of the world.
Anybody see the part where Rev. Wright said "9/11 was chickens....coming home...to roost"?
The way he said it with his arms flailing and with a big smile made me want to punch him in the face.
I don't think the flag lapel pin is compulsory, yet.
Jeremiah Wright is scum. He clearly enjoyed 9/11. His smile ... it was obvious it made him happy. His hatred for our country was palpable. Obama is scum, too, as is anyone who sat there and cheered. Truly, the face of evil.
ThinkFirst...are you one of the paid Obama bloggers who must be working overtime trying to play this down today?
And Simon...Jewish and not offended by the comments about your religion and Isreal? Must be a better man than I.
How did we end up almost nominating the most unpatriotic fool out of all of these Democrats?
My god, Obama was bitching about having to wear a little American flag pin on his suit! No other candidate on either side thought wearing a little pin was a burden upon them.
And now we see Obama's close friend and mentor smile lavishly at the thought of the deaths of all of those employees at the World Trade Center...
You make me sick, Obama. I feel sorry for your kids whom you forced to drink this venom.
Wearing a flag pin and then lying about Saddam Hussein's supposed connection to 9/11 is patriotism? Being the loudest one to sing the national anthem while refusing to help rebuild New Orleans is patriotism? The Patriotic Party of the Republicans deregulated the financial industry -- do you wonder why the country is on the brink of a recession over collateralized debt obligations?
Before you attack anyone of patriotism, try defining it first. Is it a fashion statement? Is it a car dealership that always has the flag out, even in the rain? Does patriotism consist in always finding your country to be right, even when it is committing an atrocity? Please define your terms before you apply them. You'll make more sense that way.
I would argue that patriotism is a love of the possibility of a country when it does its best, not its worst. The feeling for a brilliant constitution (minus the slavery foundations), the feeling for a nation that accords justice to all, and not merely to the wealthy few, the sense that though we're not there yet, we could get there -- patriotism is in there somewhere. It's not a flag pin, it's not a flag, it's not a song, it's not a Hummer. It's love of humanity as expressed in the Constitution.
The president swears to uphold the Constitution, not to wear a flag pin.
Ieyasu, Obama blasted those who wanted to wear the flag pin as "fake patriots". That's the real issue with Obama.
You don't have to wear a pin, Senator Obama. Why do you insult those who do?
Progressives, ck the vitriol by the holier than thou patriot crowd. That's the politics we're getting rid of. We'll be ok.
A solid majority of Americans have a positive view of Martin Luther King, and the civil rights movement of the early 1960s. They've seen, over the past 40 plus years, how much better off Black people are than they used to be. They've seen race relations improve tremendously. And they feel good about this, good about themselves, good about America.
This is why this same solid majority of Americans get so offended by the whole anti-American, conspiracy theory laden, Black Panther rhetoric. Most Americans do not have ancestors who were slave owners. Most Americans are not even WASPs. They can acknowledge Black suffering and prejudice, but have no use for those who preach perpetual victimhood.
This is why the first Black president would have to be someone who would never come within 20 miles of a nutjob like Jeremiah Wright. Someone who spent their late teens serving in the military, not smoking weed. Someone who wears their patriotism on their sleeve, not someone who rationalizes why they don't wear an American flag pin.
The Democratic party are a bunch of fools and suckers for not examining Obama a lot closer before swooning over him. They have really stepped in it. And the ones who are the most to blame are the older, more moderate Democrats who are willfully blind to the influence that the younger 1960s radicals have gained within their party over the past several decades. People like my dear old liberal dad, who still thinks that there's still plenty of Scoop Jackson Democrats, and that the America hating leftists are just "a small group of kooks with no influence".
Now you've got Joe Lieberman, the last of the Scoop Jacksons, campaigning for McCain, and a train wreck named Obama with an insurmountable lead in the primaries. And you've got all the young leftist Democrats saying "Pastor Wright speaks the truth about this country, Obama's got nothing to apologize for".
One of two things will happen. Either the superdelagates will try to put Humpty Dumpty Hillary back together again, and Blacks will riot in the streets if Obama doesn't get the nomination. Or Obama gets the nomination and loses in a landslide in November. Either way, all the older, moderate Democrats will be left saying "wha' hoppened?".
Thinkfirst, is praising 9/11 and offering sanctuary to Osama Bin Laden considered a connection to the WTC attacks?
No, I'm not a paid Obama worker. I'm a regular person with a regular job and a sense that this country is headed so far downhill so fast that we're not going to know what happened when we crash. I think there are so many things that matter so much more deeply than this silliness that I cannot believe I'm spending time here. But I got the link from realclearpolitics.com and I have found such unthinking, overly anxiety- laden responses to this issue, rather than to potential war with Iran, the endless death in Iraq, and the financial meltdown in this country that I could not let it go.
Again, I'm not paid to work this, I feel responsible to ask people to think before they write. Kind of like anything -- something needs to get done, you do it.
We don't have to salute George Bush, Support His wars, or wear flag lapel pins, as yet.
Thinkfirst "I would argue that patriotism is a love of the possibility of a country when it does its best, not its worst"
Do you love your child only when they do their best? Or do you love your child no matter what, because you love. Love is unconditional, just like Patriotism. It is love of country no matter what, because the country is us. Its our values, its our children, and its our land. Love of possibility is love of a dream, and while that is fine and dandy in dream world it doesn't cut it in reality.
And furthermore, what slavery foundation is the Constitution? And Pleassse don't start with the 3/5s. We all know how the argument goes and its a losing one.
Finally its hit the mainstream. If MSNBC and CNN are now devoting 20 minutes to it....it must be news. Well done to FOX again, couldn't hide it forever couldyou guys?
I have spent the last hour reading all the posts about this issue. I am a Pastor and feel I can offer a unique perspective. Someone earlier said that Rev. Wright is not representing Christ in his teachings. I would have to agree. Christ was a reconciler not a radical and certainly not racist. Yes, he spoke words that challenged but always did so in love. Others have said that we don't have the right to criticize Rev. Wright's statement but I disagree. Christ's harshest criticism was reserved for hypocritical religious leaders not the government or the average person. Jesus taught to show respect for the government and for all people even if you disagreed with them.
Christ didn't go to the government or to politicians to change the world but to everyday people. Why? Because He knew that His message of change was not one of politics but one of love and reconciliation that must penetrate the heart of a person to be affective. Rev. Wright's perspectives are clearly out of step with Christ's teachings and his emphasis on change through politics, condemnation and ridicule are simply unchristian.
Many have commented that it is possible to listen to the teaching of a pastor for years and not agree with their basic world view or be affected by it. For any serious Christian that is simply a bogus statement. The Bible clearly teaches to "test every spirit" especially when it comes the teachings of religious leaders. Based on that test you either accept or reject not only the teaching but the teacher. Mr. Obama's lack of willingness to reject this obviously unchristian teacher shows that either he lacks the basic judgement to see what is obvious to even the unbiased non-christian or he agrees with the teacher and his teachings. Either is a problem for Mr. Obama.
As far as trying to claim that the Religious Right is guilty of similar types of extreme comments and that justifies Rev. Wright's comments is simple silly. As a conservative Christian Pastor, I do not consider myself a part of the Religious Right. Comments made by people like Fallwell and Parsley do not reflect the majority of conservative Christians and we are pained every time we hear such dribble touted as the Christian point of view. I have rejected many of Fallwell's comments and and have even stated from the pulpit that He was wrong and that he should not be listened to. This is exactly what any reasoned Christian should do and is what Mr. Obama should do with Rev. Wright.
Should Mr. Obama separate himself from Rev. Wright? Let me just say that it is never wrong to do the right thing. Even if that right thing is painful. Mr. Obama's duty as a Christian is to expose false teaching for what it is, not to tolerate it for 20 years. If he can't make such a simple yet strong stand for the values he says he adheres to as a Christian, how will he ever make the tough decisions that a President must make. The true values and character of a person are shown in times like these. You cannot separate Mr. Obama from his faith, for it is his faith that defines his values and his values define his character and his character guides his actions. I am sad to say that Mr. Obama's lack of action shows a serious lack of character.
This is really a sad day for America, and for me personally because I was willing to vote for Mr. Obama but not now. Even if he came out today and did what was right that would not be enough. He should have taken a stand years ago, not now when it politically expedient. That would be hypocritical indeed and show and even greater lack of character.
His campaign must be WORRIED. And rightfully so.
"Barack Obama TONIGHT His pastor has made remarks that have heads turning. Now Barack Obama clears things up about his faith. He goes one-on-one with Anderson Cooper. Tonight, 10 ET" -CNN
This entire episode brings to mind Shelby Steele's book on Obama. He described Obama as someone, not using his exact words, who struggled to identify with his father as a black man, without coming to terms with his actual upbringing by his white mother.
Many people mistakenly equate rage with authenticity. I don't think Obama necessarily agrees with his preacher, but I do think it indicates a confusion about who he, Barack Obama, really is at his core. This minister gives Obama a vicarious experience of what he imagines as true "blackness".
I know this is pretty thin evidence to make such generalizations, and I just offer them to provoke some thought. In part I am inspired by the ridiculousness of some of my Irish relatives getting in a tizzy describing the inequities visited upon our ancestors by the British. All true, no doubt, but some point we need to give all this stuff a rest.
You might be unpatriotic if...
You smile at the thought of 9/11.
You love to shout at the top of your lungs "GOD DAMN AMERICA!"
Thinkfirst, Ieyasu? Off the record...you guys smiled a little bit on 9/11, right? Chickens coming home to roost.
Also, just as a PS - this is not a man ready to be president.
Watching him and Anderson Cooper try to positively spin this tonight WILL MAKE ME SICK. Will be a good laugh though. I'm sorry America, CNN and MSNBC are trying thier ass off to cover this up. No chance. We all know his campaign is now done.
Samuel Johnson 1775: "Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel"
The big problem here is not the support that Pastor Wright has given to Senator Obama. If that were the case, Mr. Obama could simply reject his endorsement, remove him from any official role in his campaign, express outrage at his statements, and return any monetary contributions
The problem, rather, is the support Obama gave, and continues to give, to Wright. Support in the form of thousands of dollars in the collection plate and donated to other church functions; his 20 years of continuous, active attendance and participation in the church; his public statements regarding Pastor Wright's role in his life as mentor and spiritual guide; and the passive support he gave to Wright by not leaving the church as soon as it became clear the kind of racist, anti-U.S. invective Wright specializes in.
No amount of rejecting Wright's vitriol at this time can possibly overcome the 20 years during which Obama supported it.
If Obama is the Democratic nominee, the GOP will have a field day with this. I can't see any way for him to win in November against the kind of campaign they would be sure to run against him.
I know that I couldn't vote for him with a clear conscience.
Samuel Johnson 1776: "The American colonists are a race of convicts"
You people would quote someone who hates America, LOL.
Good post, Patrick.
But you left out the most important support Obama chose to give to Wright. His children. Wright is apparently the kind of role model Obama wants his kids to emulate.
Roy Mustang and ilk, "you people" are clearly repugs. That's a relief. Hang tough progressives, we will overcome these people.
I am sure tha Sen. Obama is being sincere when he tells us that he denounces what amount to the grotesque, hate-filled "views" of his minister. This is the first step that we would require of a presidential candidate in this situation. The logical second step that we would now expect from Mr. Obama, as a confirmation of his rejection of Minister Wright's racist views, would be to quit this church for good, cutting off all ties, financial, social, political.
Do not be racists ! Do not forgive Obama something you will not forgive a white man !
On September 11, 2001, I spent the day horrified and unable to contact family members at two of the three locations. I had good reason to believe I lost family that day. So no, I did not "smile".
But I also know enough history to know that events come in long causal chains, not in short ones. Bin Laden did not come out of nowhere. Nor did Wright come out of nowhere.
Do I think that the chickens came home to roost? This line (from Malcom X, originally I believe) is way too simplistic for any historical event. No, the US did not directly cause the bombing and the death toll. And yes, indeed, it was horrible, personally for me, politically for this country, utterly for those who did lose loved ones, utterly for those in Iraq who are paying for a supposed connection between their former tyrant and the bombings. The loss has been felt horribly by many and the damage has been paid for by many.
Is Wright an exremist? Yes. Do I agree with his overly simplistic views? No. Do I have a vague sense of where he's coming from? I am trying to, even though it's not my view of the world. Is his connection to Obama freaking me out? Not at all because I see in Obama an attempt to put Wright into context even while disagreeing with him. I'd rather have this skill in a president than the "ability" Bush has to, say, "look Putin in the eye and see his soul" or the ability McCain has to sing "Bomb Iran" to the tune of Barbara Ann.
Obama has renounced Wright's extremism, and indeed, Obama is anything but an extremist. I'm at least ten miles to the left of him politically, but I'm impressed with his ability to listen, to respect those who differ from him, and to motivate people to take action.
I wish Bush had had some of these qualities instead of the ones he has displayed over the years.
Ethan S., I brought my children into the world and I will love them unconditionally. My country has made me as I am and what love I have for it I have because of its possiblity. When my country is responsible for the deaths of as many as one million (1,000,000) Iraqis and the displacement of well more than 3,000,000, I have to sort through which elements of my country to love and which to change. I work actively to change what is profoundly unloveable about US POLICY. I do my best not to mix up country and policy. I would ask others to attempt the same. Love of country does not require love of policy, and so we do not need to love the war nor wear flag pins to show support for a morally bankrupt policy of permanent warfare. We do need to change the unloveable in the same way that we change our children's behavior when what they do is unacceptable.
Wearing a flag pin is not an action. It does not substitute for knowing history, it does mean you have no responsibility to demand that the government be transparent about its actions, it does not absolve you of the duty to think. Unfortunately, it seems that many people use flag pins in just this way.
"When my country is responsible for the deaths of as many as one million (1,000,000) Iraqis"
I'm sorry that 1,000,000 Iraqi children died but sanctions were the only route we could take. What would you have us do? Go to war, despose of Saddam and free the Iraqi people?
THE MEDIA KEEPS DENYING THAT IT HAS used different yardsticks when judging the candidacies of Hillary Rodham Clinton and Barack Obama. Just yesterday I saw MSNBC's Courtney Hazlett on Joe Scarborough's morning program discussing Saturday Night Live's recent skits of a slavish press fawning over Senator Obama. Hazlett reported that Michael Lorne denies SNL is endorsing Clinton as president, but expressed her own view that the skits prove otherwise. Yet Lorne rejected the criticism in a New York Times interview. "That obviously is not the case,'' he told Bill Carter. "We don't lay down for anybody." He said most of the show's writers are Obama supporters, but that the show's skits had touched on a truth that the media was denying.But until it is able to tackle the uncomfortable truths about the differing standards of race from all sides of the debate, racial resentments will continue to simmer just beneath the surface, to occasionally boil over in riots, protests or the "Bradley Effect." http://www.crabbygolightly.com. Taking a dim view of celebrity, media and power.
Everybody knows Michael Lorne is in the tank for McCain. He's donated quite a bit of money to McCain's campaign. Lorne will probably be one of those people who will tell everyone he voted for Obama but really secretly voted for McCain.
I found a solace in nursing a pervasive sense of grievance and animosity against my mother's race.
I ceased to advertise my mother's race at the age of 12 or 13, when I began to suspect that by doing so I was ingratiating myself to whites.
That hate hadn't gone away. I blame white people.
Gee, I wonder why Obama would choose MSNBC and Keith Olbermann's show in particular to address this issue?
Do you all mean Lorne Michaels?
Anyway, the million Iraqi deaths are from the war, not from the sanctions. Sanctions were extimated at half a million children, but I saw that number so many times over the years that I cannot speak to its accuracy at all. So even if people are "liberated" we should ask from what? Life, for example? Women are being brutalized now for not dressing conservatively. An entire generation of Iraqi people is basically lost from this war. PTSD, inadequate nutrition, deaths of parents, lack of schooling, cholera from untreated sewage, lack of electricity, suicide bombing becoming normal for people. People who have crossed borders out of Iraq have no jobs and end up as prostitutes to help support their families. It's not like we made a lot of things a whole lot better in the short run.
And if you study some history you start to see interesting things like our deposing Mossadegh in Iran and installing the Shah (really brutal guy, but right wing, secular). Mossadegh was leftist and this was during the Cold War. Then Iraq becomes a Soviet client. The Iranian Revolution comes in 1979 or so. Khomeini, hostages.... Reagan comes in. Hostages exit. Iran and Iraq fight a decade long war. Soviet support for Iraq evaporates. Iraq becomes our client against the now Islamic Republic of Iran (Ahmadinejad was one of the hostage takers, by the way). Saddam invaded Kuwait with a wink and a nod from April Glaspie. We zap Iraq in 100 hours. And then we go back in again some years later. We encouraged the Iran/Iraq War. So we have been playing games in the region for decades. The death toll we have caused and encouraged off and on over the years is astounding. So again, the history is long and convoluted and we do not come out of it smelling like roses. In fact a lot smells like corpses.
thinkfirst, I thinkfirst thing Obama should do is hire you to script his general election campaign ads explaining why what Obama's pastor said was true and reasonable. I'm sure it will be great. You can title it: "Why White America Actually DID Have 9/11 Coming and Why I Want To CHANGE That" by Barack Obama.
MSM is so hypocritical. Case and point: If Chris Dodd was in Obama's position would he have to explain why he was on Don Imus show through the years despite the fact that Imus spewed all types of racial and radical language? Is Dodd responsible for everything that Imus said? For that matter what about Chris Matthews or any other MSNBC employee that was on his show? If not then why is Obama responsible for his pastor? Just asking.
Nietzschean, How many Iraqis had their deaths coming? No one has war death "coming", no one deserves to die falling out of a flaming building to avoid burning to death. And I can't really see how you can take my words to mean that.
The point is that history is way more complicated than many comments in this thread indicate. With this complexity comes a lot of story telling, much of which has a tinge of truth to it.
Is US policy utterly not a factor in any aggression ever directed at the US? Is aggression so incredibly random that no policy maker could ever see implications of policies? Is the US completely responsible for 9/11 such that it was as if Bin Laden's mind were controlled? Of course the answer to each of these is no. Aggression isn't random and no one forced Bin Laden or the Saudi suicide pilots to do what they did. There's a lot of free will in these actions, and there's a lot of causation, too. You're a better historian when you can see the multiple causes of events, and you're a better policy maker, too. Try studying some history, try teasing out the causal chains for a number of historical events. Study wars and their multiple causes. Study history. It's never so simple as Wright has it, nor so simple as some of the posts on this thread would have it.
Sometimes first thoughts are not always well thought out... clearly this is the case with thinkfirst
So now, according to the Obama interview on Anderson Cooper, we're supposed to believe that Mr. Obama attended services at Pastor Wright's church for nearly 20 years and somehow managed to miss every single one of Wright's racist, and anti-American diatribes?
Not only that, but he never even heard about any of these venom-filled sermons from any member of his congregation? That's a real miracle.
How credible is that?
How gullible do they think the American voters are?
What a phony dust-up to tar Obama. So his pastor spews inflammatory language - big deal! Wright - like Farrakhan and Malcolm X and all the fiery black big mouths - are mice who roar.
Take a Jerry Falwell - for instance. A racist who ALSO blamed America for 9/11 - and he gets the ear of the president. He lavishes over MILLIONS of dollars, educating students in law - that wind up working for the administration. But he's white..
Imus smears black women with his vile racism and he's paid millions - while politicians line up to kiss his ring. And yet when called on his racism, the very same bigots denouncing Wright express UMBRAGE that Imus should pay a price for his bug mouth. But he's white...
Pat Buchanan - holocaust denier, racist, anti-Semite - he's a distinguished news commentator who's on a major network every Sunday and posts on conservative websites - he worked for Nixon - defended Nixon's crimes - but, hey - he's white!
Rush Limbaugh - bigot, hater, junkie, lawbreaker - and conservative prophet making millions off HIS inflammatory language - every day on the radio. But he's white!
Farrakhan? He sells bean pies. His influence is limited to bow tie wearing ex-cons and occasional million-man marches.
Wright? no one ever heard of him until a few weeks ago. His influence and power? Nada!
These are paper tigers who spew hard truths in ugly language that Neo-con scum and right-wing haters exploit using the language of the civil rights movement - all of them - to a tee, with about as much influence as drops of rain in the ocean.
If ONLY white racism had been LIMITED to sermons, then blacks wouldn't be so angry - would they? After all, a study of American history would detail a long list of wrongs perpetrated by blacks against white - right?
Clean your own house - bigots - and then you can judge Obama...
“For the first time in my adult life, I am really proud of my country.”
What does this mean?
In light of their 20 years of membership in Wright's Church and also given what I have seen the Rev. Wright to be capable of in the uTube videos. Was Michelle Obama's quote not only insulting to the country on it's face... But perhaps the quote in and of itself smacks of racism ala Wright.
Just a scary thought that keeps creeping into my head.
Was the Jew utterly not a factor in bringing about the Holocaust?
Some say the Holocaust was racism against Jews. Yet the Jews are one of the most racially conscious peoples. The laws of the Old Testament and the Talmud strongly prohibit marriage with non-Jews. Leading Jews have always stressed the importance of race and racial purity.
You're a better historian when you can see the multiple causes of events, and you're a better policy maker, too. Try studying some history, try teasing out the causal chains for a number of historical events. Study wars and their multiple causes. Study history. It's never so simple as Wright has it, nor so simple as some of the posts on this thread would have it.
Heil Me.
And yes, America deserved to have its embassy and diplomats taken hostage because they chose to allow the Shah of Iran into their country for cancer treatment.
America deserved 9/11 for nuking Nagasaki and Hiroshima.
JFK deserved to be assassinated because the violence that Kennedy had failed to stop had come back to him.
Chickens coming home to roost never made me sad. It only made me glad.
The government lied about Pearl Harbor. They knew the Japanese were going to attack.
The government lied about the HIV virus as a means of genocide against people of color.
Fighting for peace is like raping for virginity. We cannot see that what we are doing is the same thing that Al-Qaeda is doing under a different flag. If they can't find the weapons of mass destruction then they are going to do just like the LAPD and plant them some weapons of mass destruction.
The stuff we have done overseas has now been brought back home to our own front yard.
GOD DAMN AMERICA!
My dad is a racist, though a reluctant one. But I've heard him use the word nigger many a time. Doesn't mean I don't love him, or that I haven't learned a lot from him (both good and bad and yet to be determined). I can see Barack feeling that way about his church and his pastor. After all, I grew up in a Southern Baptist household where homosexuality was deemed to be a sin and disgusting; yet I am gay. I took the good parts (most of all the peerless gift of faith in Christ) and have tried to do away with the bad. And I am sure I have failed, just as my father did, just as Barack's pastor has, just as we all undoubtedly have and will.
And your father, nor yourself, is running for President Mark H.
As I stated way earlier I went to a Baptist church, Preacher snickered how Catholics were going to Hell. I left, never went back either. It was not a Church for me and my values. Catch my drift?
I did not go back...
If obama's "pastor" hates America so much, then he should leave and reside somewhere more to his liking. He can take obama and his wife (since she is so proud of America) with him.
20 years of willingly listening to this idiot's pap is more than just putting up with a "crazy uncle".
thinkfirst, people like osama bin laden come out of an islamic tradition that elevates war against the infidel to a noble, and required, deed. They call it jihad. OF COURSE, they don't like our policy with regard to israel (I don't either). And OF COURSE they don't want filthy infidel soldiers soiling the land of "the prophet." But you shouldn't imply that this provides a context that somehow lessons the injustice and monstrousness of their actions. Are you aware that one of Al Qaeda's justifications for the Bali nightclub bombing was Australia's role in East Timur? Would you fault Australia's intervention there? Is knowing this fact somehow morally instructive? There actually is a larger context when it comes to Al Qaeda. But it didn't begin with Mossadegh and it most certainly had nothing to do with Nagasaki or Hiroshima as "rev" wright suggested. It began in the 7th century. At least that's what Osama Bin Laden says, though he gets some of his contemporary rhetoric from Michael Moore.
change we can believe in?
You got to be kidding
If this is what Obama has in mind-- we are all in for major problems...
If Obama can't bring change to his own church, how the hell is he going to bring change to America?
In fact, it appears as if he never even tried. To not speek out against this crap from his pastor and "mentor" (or is it uncle?), speaks volumes to me.
Well at least we now know where his wife gets all that doom and gloom about America.
The only question each American needs to ask is to what extent has Obama been influenced by this crackpot?
Can you even imagine what would have happened if the tables were reversed and it was Hillary's preacher who had said these things about black America? The press would have been searching for a casket to bury her in.
Wow, there is no lack of simple-mindedness on The Atlantic is there? Has Obama done or said anything to indicate he agrees with these statements? No. But because of his name and his color you rednecks just assume he did. Wake up you religious fanatics - many of us have brains and don't sheepishly swallow anything our churches say.
Good morning!
Hey Hitler and Nietzschean,
The Jews are not a nation with a supposedly rational foreign policy that supposedly is designed to be best for its people. So the analogy here is weak. And pulling out Holocaust references endlessly both weakens the unique horror of the slaughter of 12,000,000 people and lends hyperbole to your argument. Bin Laden did not kill 12,000,000 people, he did not take over most of a continent. The US has been responsible for more deaths in Iraq than Bin Laden was from the 9/11 bombings. Again the analogy to the Holocaust just doesn't seem to work, and I do not support mass killing anywhere -- not even when my government is doing it in one country and thinking about going after another one (Iran).
Secondly, in terms of blaming Islam, Islam is not the cause of radicalization any more than Christianity or just about any other system of thought and belief has been. What causes radicalization according to recent research at any rate is something along the lines of peer pressure and people who feel between cultures rather than IN a culture. Mix those with instigators who use arguments about the causes of social and economic dislocation and you can generate suicide bombers. This same mix applies east and west, north and south. We've had homegrown terrorists here, Ireland has had a number of terrorists. It's not just Islam and it's not something endemic to Islam.
If your friends are in suicide bombing training, then you start to consider it normal. The Saudi bombers from 9/11 all had contact with the US and all felt pulled between cultures. They needed to prove their own purity. More recent bombers have followed similar patterns, though not necessarily with direct experience of the US. But the peer pressure aspect seems to be pretty consistent. And Bin Laden certainly has purity issues--he's of the Saudi ruling class, he hates the Saudi ruling class (his own family, his own father) and his way of dealing with the tension is to side with purity, not with tolerance.
So the blame goes all around. The instigators are probably the worst. Policies that give the instigators room in which to instigate do not help. There's no limit to the number of fools who blow themselves and other up and convince their friends to do likewise. There's no limit to the number of people who can be flipped out by impurity and motivated by instigators. So those who control our rational foreign policy really need to think about the steps they take in the world. You anger huge numbers of people and you give the instigators a lot more power than they should have.
If you live a just life, you are less likely to give the instigators power. This idea is not the same as blaming individual people who are victims of the worst we all do to each other. But official policies of torture, pre-emptive war, occupation of other countries to preserve nasty regimes (the Saudis are Bush family allies, and the regime is repressive, nasty, and oil-laden)-- a lot of US policy gives the instigators a lot of ammunition. (Not to mention the fact that for a time the US was arming numerous people we are now fighting....We don't seem to have the most rational foreign policy, now, do we?)
Pat Robertson, Jerry Falwell, and McCain's Hagee and Parsley, Limbaugh and O'Reilly, and yes, even Wright, are firey American-style instigators. They exaggerate slights and simplify history, they have huge audiences who are entertained daily or weekly. And the exaggeration is part of the appeal. They don't incite terrorism, but they do insight way more simplicity and anger than they ought. What we should be doing is taking what all of these people say with a grain of salt (or a bottle of salt). Instead of responding with a readiness to fight, try evaluating their "arguments" and see what is rational and what is incitement.
I have seen no one evaluate in clear an accurate terms the "controversial" claims of Wright. Did the US support apartheid? As far as I can remember, Mandela was in prison during Reagan's term and thus the Cold War. Mandela's party was the African National Congress, a (sharp intake of breath) communist-leaning party. Reagan refused to impose sanctions against apartheid and thus helped the regime in South Africa survive. Please look at Wright's statements one at a time, and evaluate them. Where does he exaggerate (I don't think we "imprisoned Mandela", be we did support the regime that did)? Where is he completely over the top (AIDS is a good one)? But please then do the same for Hagee and Parsley and anti-Catholicism, and for Robertson and Falwell and anti-rational thinking, and so on.
My hope is that we will do what's best about this country -- debate and evaluate in public. Denounce what deserves it, and change the worst of our policies in the process. Democracy in action is a beautiful thing!
www.ivaw.org
Should be a link to a conference just held in which Iraq vets speak about their experiences (mostly negative). Winter Soldiers.
Maybe it's time to refocus on the war and spend fewer electrons (less ink?) on Wright and his anger.
Obama isn't the enemy. Stupid, corrupt US policy under the Bush administration has done more damage than anything the Rev. Mr. Wright could do.
It appears that thinkfirst thinks of himself as a man of great insight and historical knowledge. Alas, being as old as I am I can say with the utmost of confidence he is not. In fact I bet he is very much young and opinionated. Sort of like a lion with no teeth. Looks impressive but he has no bite.
Regardless of history (and I think thinkfirst has a very narrow and naive view of historical events) I myself have never held slaves, I have never oppressed a black man, I have never held a radical view point right or left. I have (for the most part) lived my life by my spiritual morality and I do not want a President who associated with a man like Wright even if was only for a week, much less for over 20 years. There is no way Obama did not know of Wright's views or of these sermons. After all Write was his mentor.
It's simple, no matter how thinkfirst tries to spin this. Obama is not the match for my values, nor does it appear that he is a match for many others also.
My advice for thinkfirst is to join Wright's Church. I think there is a spiritual, moral, and ideological match there for him.
"The statements that Rev. Wright made that are the cause of this controversy were not statements I personally heard him preach while I sat in the pews of Trinity or heard him utter in private conversation."
Bottom line. Senator Obama chose to lie. Like Watergate, the coverup is worse than the actual crime.
Stick a fork into Obama, he's done. Kitty Dukakis has been raped and murdered and Obama has chosen not to execute the killer.
Obama is really taking the hit at this point. Many base their knowledge of his minister's complete life, character and achievement on a few clips. We're seeing them over and over. Over 20 years of preaching are there others. Or were many sermons what we would think of as more ordinary and uplifting? Lots of self-righteousness and hypocrisy is on display. Obama has begun to address the questions posed by these clips, but he has a real challenge. He always knew that it would be difficult for an African-American named Barack Obama to be president of the United States (no matter what Geraldine Ferraro says about how lucky it makes him). This is his moment to show us what he's made of. If he fails then he won't make it, if he does it could lift this campaign to another level. It will be the supreme challenge in a world where media imagery and punditry poses as 'reality.'
In large parts of the world, there is an overwhelming feeling that the US's foreign policy was related to the terrorist attacks. I was in Guatemala working in human rights at the time of 9/11. I was living alongside people whose friends, mothers, sisters, sons, were disappeared and tortured in the name of "National Security." While the Guatemalans I was with expressed nothing but the utmost kindness and compassion towards me at that time, they asked:
Why are the 3,000 NYC and DC victims so much more worthwhile and valuable than the nearly 200,000 Guatemalan civilians who lost their lives in a US-sponsored war? They haven't gotten a response other than to see Iraqi society destroyed in response to the 9/11 deaths.
While the "Damn America" phrase isn't technically in the bible, "Damn Judah/Israel" pretty much is. Isaiah's call to repentence, within the context of the history of salvation and the future promise of salvation to Israel, is pretty intense:
1:1 The vision of Isaiah the son of Amoz, which he saw concerning Judah and Jerusalem in the days of Uzziah, Jotham, Ahaz, and Hezekiah, kings of Judah.
The Wickedness of Judah 2 Hear, O heavens, and give ear, O earth; for the Lord has spoken: �Children [1] have I reared and brought up, but they have rebelled against me. 3 The ox knows its owner, and the donkey its master's crib, but Israel does not know, my people do not understand.�
4 Ah, sinful nation, a people laden with iniquity, offspring of evildoers, children who deal corruptly! They have forsaken the Lord, they have despised the Holy One of Israel, they are utterly estranged.
5 Why will you still be struck down? Why will you continue to rebel? The whole head is sick, and the whole heart faint. 6 From the sole of the foot even to the head, there is no soundness in it, but bruises and sores and raw wounds; they are not pressed out or bound up or softened with oil.
7 Your country lies desolate; your cities are burned with fire; in your very presence foreigners devour your land; it is desolate, as overthrown by foreigners. 8 And the daughter of Zion is left like a booth in a vineyard, like a lodge in a cucumber field, like a besieged city.
9 If the Lord of hosts had not left us a few survivors, we should have been like Sodom, and become like Gomorrah.
10 Hear the word of the Lord, you rulers of Sodom! Give ear to the teaching [2] of our God, you people of Gomorrah! 11 �What to me is the multitude of your sacrifices? says the Lord; I have had enough of burnt offerings of rams and the fat of well-fed beasts; I do not delight in the blood of bulls, or of lambs, or of goats.
12 �When you come to appear before me, who has required of you this trampling of my courts? 13 Bring no more vain offerings; incense is an abomination to me. New moon and Sabbath and the calling of convocations� I cannot endure iniquity and solemn assembly. 14 Your new moons and your appointed feasts my soul hates; they have become a burden to me; I am weary of bearing them. 15 When you spread out your hands, I will hide my eyes from you; even though you make many prayers, I will not listen; your hands are full of blood. 16 Wash yourselves; make yourselves clean; remove the evil of your deeds from before my eyes; cease to do evil, 17 learn to do good; seek justice, correct oppression; bring justice to the fatherless, plead the widow's cause.
18 �Come now, let us reason [3] together, says the Lord: though your sins are like scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they are red like crimson, they shall become like wool. 19 If you are willing and obedient, you shall eat the good of the land; 20 but if you refuse and rebel, you shall be eaten by the sword; for the mouth of the Lord has spoken.�
NotHappy,
Sorry you're not happy -- but I have to say you're wrong on every count-- age, gender, dental status, knowledge. I'm glad you've never held slaves, nor I assume have you ever benefited from the institution of slavery or low wage labor or any other injustice. Of course you've never opressed a black man. You didn't vote for anyone ever who supported the prison industry, who supported the crack/cocaine sentencing disparities, who did anything but pour money into public schools so that all children could have a high quality education. You support all property tax increases for public schools. I'm truly impressed with your civic mindedness and concern for non-oppression. It's beautiful! You make your own clothing and you never use petroleum products or any electronics with raw materials mined in South Africa. Again, I thank you! I'm glad you have no radical views at all ever, for there is no reason to question one's own practices ever, to doubt one's rectitude ever. Merely never associate with the likes of the Rev. Mr. Wright and you'll ascend to heaven or whatever. It's easy to be good! Just post something on the web that denounces without nuance. That says, "No, I don't need to look at US policy and see what's wrong. I personally have done nothing bad and so that's enough for a life." (I believe Plato touches on this viewpoint in Book I of the Republic -- try to see which character it is and what happens to him in at the end.) No anger at anything this country has ever done, great respect for your own morals which you've never needed to question. Must be nice to be NotHappy but to be morally content, correct, and certain all the same. I have none of these qualities. I'm unsure, questioning endlessly, distrustful of official lines and talking points, and always looking for the small bits of truth that pop up in the unlikeliest of places. Certainty have I none. You would seem to be in a much better position on that one. Good luck with yourself, and I hope you're right and I'm wrong, for you will go to a good place I will not.
Different color, same racist bile.
Obama cannot get around the fact that for twenty years he has supported Mr. Wright through his tithing, his attendance, his participation in the life of the church, and his public statements that named Wright his spiritual advisor, mentor, and one of the most important influences in his life.
Throwing Wright under the bus now will not erase those twenty years.
Obama saying he never attended a service where Wright made statements like those that are at issue, and that no one in the congregation ever mentioned any sermons like these to him -- particularly the ones where his name is featured prominently -- is not credible.
Also, there is no valid comparison between Mr. Hagen's support for McCain and Obama's track record of support for Wright. You can repudiate the support someone gives to you. You cannot take back twenty years of your own support for a racist, hate-mongering, anti-US demagogue that easily.
I have watched Obama's damage control interviews on three of the cable networks, he seems to be evading the questions and dissembling a great deal.
I have believed Obama was disingenuous before, now I am certain he is lying to try to save his campaign.
The GOP will crucify Obama with this if they are lucky enough to have him for an opponent in November.
thinkfirst,
Is the above dribble supposed to have any meaning what-so-ever? If so I do not see it and I can assure you Mr. Obama is not the man to fix it.
Tempers are running high. Lots of hate is beginning to show its ugly head. So far I sniff more of it coming from Obama's detractors than from Obama himself. Even from his zealous pastors often replayed video clips I sense righteous anger rather than hate. People needed a reason to doubt and abandon Obama. The fact that he's African American wasn't good enough, because he was clearly a different kind of candidate this year, but now they have their reason. I don't think he's perfect, and didn't support him as my first choice in the primaries, but I have no reason to doubt that he is invoking the words and spirit of Robert Kennedy in good faith. It may not be enough, but it's an honorable effort. There is one thing that supporters of Hillary Clinton need to keep in mind, a blow to Obama will not easily translate into great enthusiasm for her after the way the last few weeks have played out. As a democrat, but particularly as an American citizen, this is all quite discouraging, but we have gone through it before, so I too will close with words from Robert Kennedy spoken the night that King died:
“We can move in that direction as a country, in greater polarization -- black people amongst blacks, and white amongst whites, filled with hatred toward one another. Or we can make an effort, as Martin Luther King did, to understand, and to comprehend, and replace that violence, that stain of bloodshed that has spread across our land, with an effort to understand, compassion, and love.
. . . we have to make an effort in the United States. We have to make an effort to understand, to get beyond, or go beyond these rather difficult times.
My favorite poem, my -- my favorite poet was Aeschylus. And he once wrote:
Even in our sleep, pain which cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, until, in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom through the awful grace of God.
What we need in the United States is not division; what we need in the United States is not hatred; what we need in the United States is not violence and lawlessness, but is love, and wisdom, and compassion toward one another, and a feeling of justice toward those who still suffer within our country, whether they be white or whether they be black.”
John Kennedy said that "on earth God's work must truly be our own." So perhaps its up to us to decide whether God will bless or damn the nation we love.
Folks we have waged an unjustifiable war on thousands of people, whom had nothing to do with 9/11. America's history (even to this day) has a tremendous flare of entitlement, privilege, thievery, and a few other choice bad words. The fact is, many Blacks, Native Americans, Hispanics, Middle Easterners, and others DO feel this way. We are Americans, and we hate the way some of the other Americans have treated and in many ways continue to treat other people. Jeremiah Wright just has the guts to say it.
Obama is a lying weasel racist. He should be forced to resign his Senate seat. Jeremiah Wright is beneath contempt. Obama embraced that racist, anti-semitic hate-monger. Obama knew the depths of that man's evil and stood shoulder to shoulder with him. Obama is tainted beyond redemption.
If Obama had any decency, he would apologize to America and withdraw from the race. Obama and Wright are a disgrace to our country.
I think the video has opened the eyes of many who have supported Obama and I bet if they could revote today the numbers would be different. Barack obviously supports the rants of such a MONSTER who calls himself a man of the cloth. His pastor only serves to promote hatred and anti-american beliefs. What I find troublesome is that the news media knew about this for over a year and has said very little about it. In fact, CNN and MSNBC seemed almost apologetic when they conducted their interview with Barack and did everything but give this man a back massage. Barack has shown poor judgement in the handling of this matter. Per Barack he supposedly first learned about his Pastor's racist and anti- American sermons when he started his campaign. He simply rejected THESE STATEMENTS then gave his Pastor an advisory position on one of his committees. Obama now claims that if he had heard his Pastor repeatedly make such statements, he would have had a talk with him. Someone needs to explain to Obama that the word REPEATEDLY means reoccuring more then once. Well there were quite a few statements made by this monster. Obama goes a step further and says "you have to understand" that he is like an old uncle to me. Well Obama, the problem is that we do understand,you belonged to a church for twenty years with deep seated anti-American and racists beliefs and teachings. OBAMA wants to be the president of the United States and he wants us to believe that he didn't know what was going on in his own backyard. FOOL ME ONCE ...FOOL ME TWICE?
Good morning NotHappy,
Hope you are feeling happier today. Re my drivel? (I don't think my words are dripping down my face and bouncing across the basketball court....) I'll try to more direct and still brief.
First, oppression can be direct by holding slaves, underpaying workers and threatening them, holding workers hostage (all in the news at various times) or oppression can be indirect and this indirect oppression is what I was referring to above. Many people benefit from the legacy of landholding and capital collecting patterns from US slavery. Northern industrial fortunes were made off of southern slavery and have financed a lot of US development. Many of our electronic devices have toxic materials in them. These materials are mined on the continent of Africa and the mine owners oppress directly. (Read about it.) Clothing is made under horrific conditions all around the world. (Read about it.) There's a lot of nastiness that gives us low low prices for fun and necessary stuff. We can say we haven't oppressed anyone -- but only because the oppression is indirect. We pay other people to do it for us. Extractive industries destroy people's well-being around the world. (Please read about it, I haven't invented anything here and I'm not exaggerating.)
On to Plato. The Republic opens with a conversation about justice. An old man, Cephalus, defines justice in a very conventional way -- telling the truth and paying debts. Then he exits the conversation to go perform a sacrifice. He wants to please the gods before he dies so that he won't be punished in the afterlife. Kind of like praying to Jesus to be saved. Skip 200 pages and go to the last part of the Republic and there's a myth about what happens after we die. Skip to the part where a soul gets to choose a new life. This soul has been warned not to choose carelessly and not to take the first and easiest life. The soul doesn't listen. It picks the first and easiest life -- that of a tyrant. Then the soul discovers that, as a tyrant, he is fated to eat his own children. And he wails and moans and blames the gods for his fate. But it wasn't his fate, it was his own ignorance and refusal to have learned what justice is. That's what living a conventional life with conventional morals and no thinking will get you.
How is Plato relevant? You don't need to read it literally. But with every decision you make, you are like a soul choosing a new life. Do you do what's easy? Do you make yourself study? Will you "eat" your children? Not in a stew, of course, but through your ignorance you will set up a life that will make your children suffer. You and a whole generation of people buy SUVs and suburban houses to protect your children. Then the children suffer from global warming and unsustainable energy use. You decide to support war, and your children fight in it for 100 years (that's John McCain's idea.) You decide to buy the cheapest comsumer goods and your children live with unliveable wages and unmanageable working conditions. You find needle exchange programs to be immoral and your children die from AIDS. You can't stand talk of sex, and your children have babies when they are babies. You support Bush and McCain and your children have a permanent war, a ruined economy, and no way out of it.
Plato would have us understand that our choice to be ignorant, to live in a conventional, well-run society where we do not have to think and so we do not bother to think will come back to haunt us. I think Plato is pretty wise about this. So when I see all of these easy denunciations of Wright without looking at his specific words and evaluating each and every claim to find the truth and the exaggerations to be utterly what Cephalus would do. And we now know his fate.
What Wright really is for a lot people who are freaking out about this, is a way out of feeling bad. They didn't want to vote for Obama, but didn't want to feel racist. So now, with Wright and without analysis, they can pin the racism on Obama and Wright -- THEY ARE THE RACISTS, I WILL NEVER VOTE FOR A RACIST -- and they can now vote for the white guy they wanted all along and not feel at all racist about the whole thing. Wright has provided the excuse not to think. Again, we will eat our children because we do not bother thinking.
There might, in this, be a third kind of oppression -- utterly indirect oppression where I can blame MY racism on someone else, preferably a member of the group I have felt racism towards -- and I can get rid of any sense of guilt I ever had. Thus, African-Americans become the racists and whites are guilt-free. What a strategy!!
End of essay. Sorry to take up so much space. Hope the drivel is clearer.
Jesus is the model on how to base your life if you find yourself on the outside of power.
In case you missed it, that was the point being made in the Cliff Notes 4-minute YouTube extract of Rev. Wright's sermon.
I'll bet you did miss it.
Are you relying on these 'clips' to base your choices? 4 billion people are counting on you to select the world leader. We owe it to our children not to be lazy.
For those who think they have Reverend Wright's complete number based on the snippets taken from a few of his sermons subjected to the churn of talk TV, and who want to pretend to even a semblance of an open mind, I refer you to the entire text of his Audacity of Hope sermon, now posted on A. Sullivan's site at http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/thedailydish/2008/03/for-the-record.html#more
thinkfirst,
The only thing brief about you is perhaps, your briefs.
I think I can tell you your problem real briefly though... You are way too over read and have left yourself no time at all for a life.
soooooo... Get a life.
About a year ago, Obama rejected disparaging remarks made by his racist and anti-American Pastor then turned around and gave him an advisory role on one of his Committees.
Obama would have you believe that Pastor Wright is inconsequential but he doesn't make a political move without consulting his pastor.
Obama wants you to believe that over a twenty year period as a member of Wright's Church, he has never heard a racist or anti-American remark from this man. Do you believe for a second that this old man who has such hate in his heart just came out of the closet? Are we supposed to believe that before Pastor Wright came out to preach his sermon, he would look out over his congregation and when he saw Barack and Michelle in attendance, he would say, "Oh I need to tone down the rhetoric today". If you believe that one then I have a bridge to sell you.
As far as I know, Barack still belongs to Trinity Church and the new pastor has been handpicked by Wright. I therefore do not expect a change in its present teaching practices anytime soon.
Do you think Barack is really presidential material? When he didn't even know what was going on in his own backyard. Instead of separating himself from this racist and anti-American pastor, he embraced him for over twenty years. No wonder, it took all this time for Michelle to be proud of her country.
Hello, I have posted the following comment on several other blogs since yesterday, but I offer it here as I am an African-American female who attended Trinity. I am writing to offer a perspective on this situation that I hope will provide some insight. I was a member of Trinity United Church of Christ for over twenty years, and I attended regularly until I relocated, several years ago. I have a large collection of sermons preached by Rev. Wright that span the 20+ years I attended. The clips that are getting played across the Internet represent a few minutes extracted out of thousands of minutes of sermon footage. Here’s what I would hope the readers of this forum will consider: In the African-American worship tradition and experience, the black pulpit is a symbol of freedom and catharsis. Congregants, many of whom have experienced more nuanced but still painful instances of racism during the week, are set free. Worshippers experience this freedom vicariously in the freedom of the preacher. When I attended Trinity and heard the sermons preached by Rev. Wright, I heard his words in context. I therefore clearly understood (and I believe most who attended understood) that his messages gave voice to very real pain experienced by older and not-so-old African- Americans. Most important of all, his sermons did and do offer hope that by coming to know Jesus’ example as a healer and liberator, we would be inspired to follow the example, go out into the world, reach out to others, and work to bring about change in our communities, cities, and country. When I left church after services ended, I wasn’t filled with hatred or venom towards anyone. I was usually hungry, in search of a decent meal, and ready to get on with whatever the week was to bring. Trinity’s members are not "haters", and certainly possess the ability to make the distinction between hyperbole and homily. Knowing what I do about the church FIRSTHAND, I understand why Mr. Obama did not cut ties to the church—his experience at Trinity (and mine) was simply not what some in the media and the political arena are trying to portray. I do believe that more African-Americans need to participate in discussions such as this one via blogging,in order to share our experiences and understandings, and I do hope my comments here (and elsewhere) are helpful.
Based on what I am learning about Wright, it is worth noting his positive effect on the lives of so many poor Americans in Chicago and elsewhere over a span of 40 years or more. While I am offended by some of his rhetoric, I cannot demonize him in light of his overall contribution. Part of his focus is the advancement of blacks and the poor (white included). Except for the rhetoric in question, I would say America has been better off having Wright than not. I am satisfied with the response Obama has provided.
Obama is a lying filthbag.
I am another Obama supporter who would like additional explanation about the Senator's views on Wright. At the same time, I admit I'm an ambivalent Catholic who was married in the church, had my children baptized there because the church is part of a cultural identity for me, but at the same time I cringe at some of the things I hear in sermons from time to time. There are many things I disagree with the church about (their response to the sexual abuse scandal at the top of the list), but I still attend most Sundays, recognizing it to be a human institution which I can only hope will change. And it provides community for us, and most of the friends I have there are wonderful, tolerant people. My conservative father also sometimes says things that offend me, but I have not dissolved my relationship with him. We just have things we don't talk about. Perhaps all of this makes me a hypocrite, but also it makes me human, with imperfect, human relationships. I also consider myself an independent thinker, who can hear others' views without letting them define or influence my own. I think one of the tragedies of our country is that we're so busy condemning each other that we've lost our ability to hear people out and try to understand their experience even if we don't share their views.
Moreover, while it is right to decry this kind of rhetoric, I don't think we should have a double standard here. What about Pat Robertson, and the kind of incendiary things that comes out of his mouth on a regular basis? What about James Dobson? And what kind of relationship do these people have with prominent Republicans, including the current president?
Senator Obama is going to make an address tomorrow on race. No doublt he will lead off with a line from The Wizzard of Oz..."Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain, I am the great and powerful Obama."
Some black posters have suggested that hate speech such as Wright's is standard fare in black pulpits across the country, and that blacks walk around day after day with barely concealed rage. I guess its easier to blame someone else for your situation than it is to face your own deficiencies. If all this is true, we are doomed as a nation.
I am not going to not vote for Obama because of Wright's comments but to dismiss them as some sort of speaking truth to power is idiotic. He said specifically that the KKK controls America. If that were true, I assume Reverend Wright would be hanging from a tree by now. Someone said he counsels to love your enemies. You mean by saying God should damn America. Although I have not heard any comments about Jews, I would bet the mortage that he dislikes Jews.
I'm sure Wright has said other things that aren't as controversial and, as I said, I hardly think Obama is some radical left-winger, but I don't think you can simply dismiss his rantings, especially the illogic and simple weirdness of some of the stuff he said. At the same time, I agree with one of the other commenters that this kind of stuff is probably pretty common in black churches across the country. Blacks, with good reason, look at the US differently than whites. But there is also a lot of intolerance as well; I haven't heard anything about gays, but I suspect Wright is not a big fan. And it's one thing to say that US policy had some part in causing 9/11 and another to seem gleeful about it as Wright did.
As I said, this doesn't really affect my decision about whether to vote for Obama, especially considering the stuff that comes from churches on the other side. My concern is not so much what it says about Obama as what is says about th ekind of hatred that is being disseminated in these churches.
I'm really sorry for the Obamas and their fellow congregants. This isn't religion--it's hate posing as religion. While there may be a kernel of truth Rev. Wright's sermons, it's like the kernels of corn remaining once they pass out of the alimentary tract--the rest of the stuff is unwholesome to the point of poisonousness.
My reason for not voting for Obama in the primary is quite different--it was his aside during an earlier campaign speech that he isn't one to concentrate on detail. From my own life and work experience, knowledge of detail is KEY.
The whole Obama/Clinton brouhaha appears to be created by the commercial media to make a cheap news story--and to appease their advertisers who make no bones about wanting another four years of Republicans. Just look at the commercials on the prime-time news shows on CNN, MSNBC, et al.--they're all for prescription pharmaceuticals, especially the new, proprietary ones that aren't available as generics. Just look at the questioning of the two candidates at the debates and on "Meet the Press." It seems the "fair and balanced" lie migrated from Fox to others.
ritaj52, I just wanted to say thank you for sharing your experiences from attending that church. I'll try to disseminate your words.
"The alliance between evangelical Christians and the Republican Party has been one of the most fruitful political partnerships in recent American history." So said Ross Douthat in praise of the Bush administration's attempt to break down the wall separating church and state.
Now he is critical of Obama because the pastor of his church sounds angry about some of the well known injustices blacks have suffered.
A lot of us 'white folks' may rather not be reminded of it, but can't argue his point.
But that is not Obama, he is, maybe even because the anger he heard expressed, is working toward the goal of unifying people regardless of color, age, gender, religion.
He grew up in Hawaii in a multicultural environment, and the Hawaiians have the best expression for Obama's goal for unity and peace: they say he has the Aloha Spirit...
Ritaj52 and Sajo I thank you too... Some people are just looking for excuses to hate someone, and call him names. Rev. Wright is called anti-american by some people who don't know anything about him, including the fact that he served in the marine corps. These people may end up hating a lot of the new crop of marines and call them anti-american because the troops don't like some of the things their government made them do. Read a little...before you mouth off.
Are you aware, that for most of the past decade Rev. Wright's sermons have been broadcast in tne Chicago area? He's been on as often as twice a week. Since the the rhetoric that offends is new to me, I take Senator Obama at his word. If these type of comments were a regular part of his preaching, I believe we'd have heard about it. I'd heard about Rev Wright, and Trinity U.C.C. before I'd ever heard about Barack Obama.
Are you aware that Trinity is a predominantly black congregation that is part of a predominantly white denomination? I have no doubt that if the Senator were a Catholic who attended say St. Sabina here in Chicago, they'd try to hang father Michael Pfleger's words around his campaign. He can be inflammatory too, but since Pfleger is white, they couldn't play the race card.
A lot of the comments seem to assume that the Senator belongs to some obscure and mysterious black denomination, that there is some black christianity separate from the rest that he secretly belongs to. At least that's a step away from being a secret muslim. In the meantime, watch out for the rest of the kitchen, they're just getting started with the sink.
Whatever your religon is, I don't believe there is a person in the US who has not heard that it is wrong to take the Lord's name in vain. Even if you don't believe that, for a so-called minister to stand behind the pulpit in a so-called church and use the Lord's name in vain is one of the most disgusting things I have ever heard. Well, except for all the innocent people who died on 9-ll getting what they deserved. How could anyone with any compassion make a statement like that. He is no man of God, more like a man of the devil and has taken racism to a whole new level. Barack Hussein Obama can give all the lying speeches that he wants to but there is no way he did not what is minister was saying. Listen to BHO's wife she was voicing the same opinions. If you want to whine and cry about race, how about Native Americans who can't get social security because they can't prove they are Americans. If you vote for Barach Hussein Obama and if he does get to be President, then you have voted for the down fall of this wonderful country regardless of what race you are. BHO would not be any better to the middle class blacks then middle class white, red or yellow.
I have seen so many good men's careers ended for saying far less than Wright and by accident. Yet, we are supposed to overlook the deliberate hate sermons and only look at the big picture spanning 20 years. What's good for the Goose...
Not once have I heard a Black leader say, let's look at so and so's life in whole before we demand he resign for accidently slipping a percieved racial statement. Wright said it and he believes it, Obama knew it and did not leave. Now for us to be as fair as a black leader, many, many times in recent years. These two men must go, they must apologize and step away.
On the topic of race- Obama's mother is white and so are his grandparents that raised him. So there is NO WAY he hates white people! As a pracical matter, he is the perfect blend of the races to lead a country with such a complex and tragic race-based history. His mom is a white woman but because his dad is black he has led life un-sheltered from the black experience. I think he is uniquely placed to sit in Wright's audience and dismiss some of the more incendiary comments - simply because HE KNOWS THEY ARE NOT TRUE! No wonder he likens him to 'a crazy uncle'. Let's not forget the facts people.
All I ask of my black countrymen and countrywomen, is that you hold Jeremiah Wright and Barack Obama to the same standards you hold white people to. Ghetto rappers can go on and on shouting the N-word and calling their women Ho's, and their CD make them millions. Very few in the black community complain. Ross Perot says "your people" when he addressed the NAACP, and he was labeled a racist. White people have been voting for Obama in droves, he doesn't need excuses or some sort of "political affirmative action" as cover. If he is truly qualified to be president, and if he truly transends race, then he is capable of explaining his long relationship Jeremiah Wright and should be man enough to face the consequences of supporting Wright's ministry of hate.
http://www.counterpunch.org/wise03182008.html
A point-by-point consideration of the "controversial statements" Wright made.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QOdlnzkeoyQ
A link to the FULL SERMON -- the "controversial statements" are in complete context.
Point...
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OBAMA CAN'T DENOUNCE WRIGHT NOW AFTER 20 YEARS
Obama's been going to Wright's church and listening to his sermons for 20 years. Too late to start denouncing him now. Why didn't he leave the church at any time in the last 20 years? Why does he call him his "mentor"? Why did he name his book after Wright's sermon? Why did he get baptized by Wright? Why did he get married by Wright? Why did he allow his children to get baptized by Wright.
It looks like we have a common Hustler/Con Man running for President--one with a law degree.
Posted by Lexi | March 14, 2008 10:41 AM