Wednesday, 03.05.08
The Price of Empire
Jay Directo/AFP Getty Images
John McCain and others often cite U.S. bases in Korea and Japan as a model for a long-term U.S. presence in Iraq. This rape case, which the Japanese authorities dropped because the family of the 14-year-old junior high student didn't want to pursue charges, is a reminder of one of the less savory dividends of U.S. bases in your backyard. U.S. military personnel have been raping Okinawans for the last 60-plus years. (For an early account, see this 1949 report by Time's Japan correspondent; Chalmers Johnson gives a detailed, and depressing, update in the Okinawa chapter of Blowback.)
Yes, the overwhelming majority of U.S. military personnel aren't sociopaths. Moreover, downtown Baghdad or Falluja likely won't be sprouting outlets like Okinawa's Club Fujiyama. But the impact of these kinds of episodes on the U.S. image, not to mention on our strategic relationships, is one more reason to weigh carefully the hypothetical benefits of a long-term U.S. military presence against their very real costs. And for the Okinawans, at least, the price of Pax Americana has been very high indeed.
Don't kick out the U.S.Weston S. Konishi warns against dissolving the alliance between Japan and the U.S., and he points out that circumstances have improved since 1995. |
Yankee come homeChalmers Johnson argues that Japan's government must demand that American troops go home or rapes and other violence against locals will continue. |
These are a few of my favorite thingsTime went to Okinawa and found "nationalist politics, screaming media, a half-century of dammed-up local grief and -- roiling beneath it all -- an undercurrent of racism." |
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What an extraordinarily bumptious and insulting observation by Mr. Gibney. Soldiers and local girls have been an unpredictable combination since classical times; but since 1945, the ratio of American misbehavior to the number of US troops stationed overseas has been astonishingly low, by historic standards. German, British, and Japanese women have been considerably more likely to marry GIs than be assaulted by them, and Chalmers Johnson is about as reliable a witness on these subjects as Rosie O'Donnell.
Charming.
Occupation is a rather strong word for what Americans do on Okinawa and in Germany. A large part of why Marine and Army units were maintained in both of those countries during the Cold War was to provide a "red line" that made clear the United States would not accept aggression against her allies. Japan and Germany were not foolish enough to believe that some Americans wouldn't think twice about entering a third world war merely because the Russians decided to take half of Berlin. Putting American troops there made sure the Russians would have to kill U.S. citizens to do so, making a response inevitable. Thus in both the German and Japanese cases, they were getting deterrance capabililty against Russia and China on the cheap. Why have they not gone home since the Cold War ended? Most likely because Japan still has a less than rosy image in China and worries that without an alliance with the United States, China might try to flex its muscles against her old rival with Japan left to shoulder the burden itself. In Germany, in case you hadn't notice, Russia isn't exactly a kindly neighbor, though the thought of tank divisions pouring over the border isn't likely. Why on earth would the U.S. keep expensive bases in Germany that it doesn't need when it is fighting battles in the Middle East and Central Asia? If it was the "occupying power" you claim, then why did it vacate a much more useful airbase in Uzbekastan? I'm sorry to have to debate strategy in a forum that should be devoted to the plight of a poor girl who was the victim of a disgusting man, but when people throw around accusations that the United States is occupying fellow democracies, implying that it is against their governments' wishes, I find the absurdity of such a comment warrants a response.
I served as a Mormon missionary in Japan for two years in the 90s (you know - dorky white shirt and name tag...). Tall 19 year old Caucasian kid with light brown hair. One of the areas I served in was Sasebo - a small port city with a US naval base. We got one day off a week to do shopping, run errands, and kick back a bit. Typically we spent those days off "out of uniform." In most cities I lived in, it was a bit of a relief to ditch the shirt and tie for once.
But not in Sasebo. I noticed I was getting some VERY ugly looks from the natives on my days off.
After a while, I realized what it was. I looked like an off-duty US military guy. I was even refused service at a shop where I tried to get my watch repaired.
I quickly went back to that dorky white shirt, tie, and nametag. And the world became a much friendlier place.
Imagine! As an obnoxious, intrusive, foreign-looking cult member who was likely to try and accost people on the streets and shove religion on them, I was more appealing to the native Japanese than a standard US military person.
Yeah, imagine that Seth. Or maybe you were so stupid and harmless-looking that you didn't raise the fear level of the locals.
Journalists have been smearing the troops for over sixty years. No not all journalists, just some.
JAPANESE PROSECUTORS HAVE DROPPED CHARGES...Reads the headline, Charmers Johnson and James Gibney are correct.
So to Mr. Phillip Terzian and especially the extremly naive comments of Spencer, I say, Okinawa is the only, I repeat, the only, OCCUPIED place in the world that is still occupied by military forces since the end of WWII. Spend a day around Henoko and listen to the shells exploding on the Northern Training grounds, listen to the Jets screaming over Kadena, Futenma, and loud vibrations of the Helicopters flying low over the roof tops, Tanks driving into school campuses scaring the children.
This is the Military Industiral Complex in Action, that President Eisenhower warned us about.
Comments in the Time regarding Sex and Race in Okinawa, paints a wide brush, uses mole hills to make a mountain of a story, that says very little. The story could be done in any city USA and you will see the same thing, except kids on Okinawa are not bringing guns to school to kill each other.
Okinawa is aproximately the same size as New York City, and in Los Angeles will easily fit between the Rose Bowl in Pasadena and Long Beach, is forced to host 37 US Military Bases and the Kadena AFB is the largest AFB in Asia; Yet pathetic observations by Spencer who points out that China might flex its power and implies that without US Military on Okinawa, China might invade. This is propaganda spewen out by US Military to justify their presence there.
Okinawa has ben FORCED to host troops since the end of WWII, and in 1972, not only a secret agreement was made, but is still strongly in force that will keep US Military on Okinawan soil, as long as it suits their interests in Asia, which will be forever. With Okinawa being at poverty levels in Japan, of course, people will accept the US Military, and many girls will want to date Americans looking for a better life, that is a no brainer, just a ignorant comment; For you whose fathers and grandfathers served WWII, in Eurpope, look at your English & German mothers and French and Italian grandmothers and ask youself; Is Okinawa and Okinawan Women any different from your European mothers? This is just racism to imply that Okinawans are some how different. Okinawa is forced to shoulder over 75% of US Military alignment in Asia and the real question is Why Okinawa? The other 25% are spread between the mainland of Japan & Korea. Why are these soldiers not on the main islands of Japan itself; Japan who Started WWII, did everything it could to avoid Military Occupation; The crimes & problems the military brings with them. Guess what...They won, the troops are mostly on Okinawa. I also feel the ignorance in some of these comments warrants the truth, not just a response. I spend more time on Okinawa since my 2 year US Army Tour than I do in the USA and much more time studying Okinawan History, and observing what is really going on behind the scenes. It is a shame that the focus has shifted from the 14 year old being a victim to the US Military being the victim, but a strong offense is usually the best defense.
Seth,
You were probably discriminated against because of gross, rank ignorance and bigotry of those who unjustly tar a broadly honorable group with the actions of a few.
Like the ignorant fool at the Atlantic, James Gabney, who wrote this piece, for example.
Empire?
Since when?
And who is the Emperor?
Or does someone have an agenda, and "empire" is just another dog-whistle for the Left?
Maybe if more reporters actually served, they could write sensibly about the military. Until then, it has all the credibility of the Ku Klux Klan informing us of the lives of African-Americans.
US soldiers have been raping Okinawans for 60 years is exactly the kind of comment I would expect from the people at the Atlantic. Fits right in with their worldview. Okinawans have been raping Okinawans for thousands of years of course.
The comment by Denis is typical for its ignorance, bulldog anti-Americanism, and general stupidity. Russia withdrew its troops from Eastern Europe when it was clear that they would be forcibly expelled by the newly freed Eastern European governments if they didn't get the fuck out.
Germany and Japan are US puppet governments, you're an idiot. There's no other response to such amazing nonsense. Get your tinfoil hat back on.
one more reason to weigh carefully the hypothetical benefits of a long-term U.S. military presence against their very real costs. And for the Okinawans, at least, the price of Pax Americana has been very high indeed
You mean the uncounted millions of dollars that is poured into the local economy over the last sixty years?
The need for a military presence is ALWAYS hypothetical, right up to the point that a regional mad-man decides to start a war, then the hypothetical becomes real. But hey, don't let that stand in the way of a barely-concealed insult against the military.
The crimes & problems the military brings with them.
Unlike the crimes and problems that civilians inflict upon society. Oh wait, in your gated neighborhood there aren't those sorts of problems, are there?
Sorry, didn't mean to throw mud on your carefully constructed worldview.
This is repulsive slander and if the editorial staff of the Atlantic had any goddamn sense they'd be appalled and ashamed.
I'm beginning to wonder if my subscription to the magazine is worth it? If anything, it gives insight into how an enemy thinks about our country...or an idiot...
"U.S. military personnel have been raping Okinawans for the last 60-plus years."
Yeah, and Leftists have been killing cops for longer.
Yes, the overwhelming majority of Leftists aren't sociopaths. Moreover, downtown San Francisco or Seattle likely won't be sprouting outlets like Okinawa's Club Fujiyama. But the impact of these kinds of episodes on the Leftist image, not to mention on their strategic relationships, is one more reason to weigh carefully the hypothetical benefits of a long-term Leftist presence against their very real costs.
Just sayin'.
BTW..."The Price of Empire"?
hehehehehehehehehe
Cue the ominous music.
Liberal activists have been assaulting service members for the last 40-plus years.
Yes, the overwhelming majority of liberals aren't sociopaths. Moreover, downtown Berkeley or Tacoma likely won't be sprouting outlets like Okinawa's Club Fujiyama. But the impact of these kinds of episodes on the U.S. image, not to mention on our strategic relationships, is one more reason to weigh carefully the hypothetical benefits of a long-term liberal presence against their very real costs. And for the non-partisan residents and business owners of these cities, at least, the price of hysterical liberal antics has been very high indeed.
The Crimes & problems the military brings with them is an observation, from actually being there, walking the walk, not just talking about it. I have seen a fellow GI burn down his girl friend's house because she was two timing him. I have seen MPs fighting each other over bar girls and learned 2 marines from 3rd Marine division raped an 80 year old lady working in a rice paddy. That had to be very muddy.
But then my 3 years active, 7 years active reserves, and a cop for 30 years probably doesnt count for much; The gated communities I would like to take you to were my former beats in Nickerson Gardens and Jordan Downs in South Central L.A. where you better have something better than mud to throw when the bullets are flying.
I am quite capable of crafting a statement, without living in a gated community, having spent 2 years in S/E Asia, seeing death around me since I have been 19 years old, and have seen more than I care to, and am not anti American, anty Millitary, just have learned to speak the truth, when I see it.
I never get excited by mudd throwing, especially from those who do not know how to thrown anything but mudd.
Facts are what counts in this world. What I worry about the most is how todays veterans are going to be treated by our own society when they are not being cared for, not getting their benefits and are sitting on street corners with a sign, Irag War Vet, homeless, that is when you can start your real mudd slinging, just make sure you have the right target in sight...
Heck, price of empire? Here's the price of garrisoning liberal wack jobs in the CONUS:
http://www.zombietime.com/folsomsf2007part1/
Funny, I recall Murtha's plan for surrender in Iraq was to "redeploy" U.S. forces to someplace where they wouldn't be an unwelcome occupation force, like Okinawa.
Would James Gibney ever smear blacks or gays the way he does the U.S. military?
If he had done so, would he still have his job?
Shame on you, Mr. Gibney.
I started to post a calm rational fisking of your inane article and then I decided to hell with that. I can put it a lot simpler.
Fuck you and the horse you rode in on. You are not worth debating.
Journalists have been raping the truth for over 100 years. When will their reign of lies end?
Hey great for you Bob, except you fail to realize that there are...GASP!...others out here in the world who have been to the same places.
I'm retired Navy(BMCS; USS Flint, USS Vincennes, USS Carl Vinson, USS Sculpin{SSN}) and have spent most of my adult lifetime either overseas or travelling there. I currently work as a social worker for a place called the Life Boat that caters to adults in need. But I guess that doesn't stack up to your life experience.
I've visited Sasebo (there was always a guy on the harbor promontory yelling through a bullhorn), Okinawa, the Phillipines, Hong Kong, Singapore, etc. etc. etc. ad-nauseum. I could regale you too with anecdotal tales about stolen buses, street fights, bar brawls, arguments over comb-chicks and general hell-raising, but I won't. Why, because there isn't a city in the world that doesn't see crime whether or not the military is present.
Do soldiers commit crimes? Sure, but trying to tag the military as more prevalent to commit them than any other chosen group because of instances in Okinawa is an exercise in sophistry.
You just gotta love the left's casual slander and stereotyping of soldiers and sailors. It's as natural to them as breathing. But they support the troops!
Funny, I recall Murtha's plan for surrender in Iraq was to "redeploy" U.S. forces to someplace where they wouldn't be an unwelcome occupation force, like Okinawa.
Shhhhhhhhhhhhhh...you're not allowed to mention democrats in a bad light; Obamessiah will strike you down with his Lightning Bolt of AudacityŠ.
You have been warned.
Murtha's an idiot, who was lucky to survive and come home. Liberals and leftests are idiots, and far right wing christian conservatives are idiots.
And the mass majority are lambs being led to the slaughter house by the guy on his horse.
I prefer a good fist fight or a good gun fight, to a debate. As for the millions of US dollars pumped into Okinawa's economy, I read from the US Military Stats on the millions spent from Military Bases on Okinawa, which accounted for 5% of the total income to Okinawa Prefecture. Of which over 75 % went to Japanese Business interests on the mainland of Japan. So much for pumping millions into the poor Okinawans who never got to see it.
You managed to find the anti American bunch that comes out and demonstrates against the US every week.
But you obviously didn't read the excellent Filipine press, or you would know that most Filipinos don't agree with them.
In fact, you didn't bother to figure out that even the MILF actually backed the Balikatan exercizes. You know why? Because they are training the Pinoy military to be professional against those who terrorize the Muslims who are trying to make peace with the government, while setting up clinics, repairing schools, and making roads.
So one "entertainer" cries rape, and we have an international incident. When Pinays working as maids in Saudi are raped, it's ignored as part of their job description?
Why is it that whenever "Pax Americana" (images of grim Roman legions marching over corpse-strewn battlefields) tries to become less "Pax" we always get the sob story from the subject peoples?
Not too long ago an idea was floated about pulling our troops out of Germany. We heard such an uproar from the Germans about it that the idea was quickly buried and forgotten about.
"Pax Americana" my ass.
Denis-- I was wondering, what verifiable disarmament treaties?
Like, say, the one that "disarmed" North Korea's nuke program in 1993? Like, say, the CFE treaty - that has been effectively abrogated by Russia? Like the ABM Treaty, that Moscow repeatedly violated?
Generally, you will find that disarmament treaties are only observed in the breach, or when a concommitant "stick" exists to counterbalance the carrot of reduced tensions and armaments. They aren't simply negotiated out of the clear blue sky, rather due to perceived mutual benefit.
I read from the US Military Stats on the millions spent from Military Bases on Okinawa, which accounted for 5% of the total income to Okinawa Prefecture. Of which over 75 % went to Japanese Business interests on the mainland of Japan.
Then you better take up your beef with the Japanese government because U.S. soldiers don't fly all the way to Tokyo to buy a beer.
I find it sad that we are having a hard time evolving into an empire of fact (although this is debatable for we started as a union of 13 units, and now are up to 50 -- and counting)
I say: why pretend? Let's make Germany, Japan, South Korea, Iraq, etc a state. Let's drop English as the official language and use the language of a empire we owe our civilization to: Latin.
Throw in Israel. Puerto Rico. Cuba. Philippines (the latter three fought over by us in 1898)
Sure we'll go broke in the process. But that's a good thing.
Leadership is a drag and a thankless task. Let the Russians, the Chinese, the Indians be handed the baton for world hegemony.
I think the real reason the military is hated is because the uniforms are drab. We ought to have one of the "don't tellers" design something better. More majestic, rather than "I'm a grunt with an M-16. What are you going to do about it?". Something that every person living near a base (domestic and foreign) wants to aspire to wearing (thereby serving).
The Ancient Greeks got their power-wear right. The Romans copied it. Maybe we ought to do the same.
Our bases ought to look like castles/kingdoms instead of quonset huts and tent cities.
All I'm saying is, if we are going to rule the world, let's do it in style.
As for the rapes, its what Alexander the Great UNIRACE. Can't get any simpler than that.
Wow, just wow, "...been raping Okinawans for the last 60-plus years..."
What an asshat. This must be The Atlantic..yep. Looks to be.
U.S. military personnel have been raping Okinawans for the last 60-plus years.
Wow! Some of those guys gotta be over eighty years old by now.
Is there anyone less capable of critical thinking than a liberal journalist? This guy simply assumes that the rape occurred. Like 14 year old girls never lie.
You didn't get the memo: fourteen year old girls and Duke-area strippers never lie, ESPECIALLY when either whitey or baby-killing soldiers are the chief suspect.
Convict and imprison, then you deal with little technicalities such as innocent before proven guilty.
U.S. military personnel have been raping Okinawans for the last 60-plus years.
That is a long, damn time without a day off.
Interesting. Of course the crack journalist has nothing to say about the American officer's wife who was raped in Osaka a few years ago by a Japanese man. He admitted in his confession that he targeted her because she was Western. Of course here (in Japan) that wasn't splashed all over the papers. Yes, the overwhelming majority of Japanese men aren't sociopaths. But these sorts of episodes are the price we pay for having defended them for over 60 years.
In the early 80s, I spent 2 years on Okinawa on the Army base at Torri Station and must have lead a sheltered life as I didn't see any American on Okinawan crime. However, a friend of mine was mugged on payday outside Kadena Air Base to a gang of local "youths." Another acquaintance got conned out of a lot of money by a bar girl who claimed he was the father of her child (not true, it turned out). Another NCO I knew was falsely accused of drunk driving by the Japanese police. Why falsely? Because his wife was driving and he was in the back seat! Western women were routinely harrassed by local men, not just name calling but very agressive groping. (And I'm certain, but can't prove that I'm not condoning criminal activity on the part of the US military, but want to say that crime was not a one way street on Okinawa.
Nice. James Gibney, your schooling has failed you; time to demand a refund. WTF happened to the Atlantic?
Bob - enough with the chest thumping as close air support for weak logical structure. Many of us here are also veterans. Bravado is not that impressive to us - dazzle us with your brilliance instead. Plus, the effect is lost on me when I'm squinting and moving my head around trying to focus without my reading glasses.
Congratulations, Mr. Gibney, on having the fortitude to make sweeping accusations against our armed services personnel. You have done your leftist duty, now go away. Forever.
The 99.9999% of American military men and women who have never raped anyone have more bravery and honor in their pinky than you will ever have.
Tsk, tsk.
"U.S. military personnel have been raping Okinawans for the last 60-plus years."
Say kids, let's try some other equally illustrative statements, such as:
"Atlantic Monthly journalists have been raping women since 1857."
"Catholics have been raping Protestant women since the Reformation."
"Harvard professors have been raping students for almost 400 years."
"Of course, the overwhelming majority of Catholics and Harvard professors aren't sociopaths."
Gee, that was fun. And so useful.
U.S. military personnel have been raping Okinawans for the last 60-plus years.
That's a pretty bold assertion, do you have statistical proof of this besides isolated incidents of a few deviants. I've pulled into Okinawa once and Yokosuka twice on a ship and I certainly didn't see a "culture of rape" that this post seems to ascribe. I thought tired old sterotypes about US military personnel as criminals had died in the 60s, but apparently they have re-surfaced as blogging memes to help boost the far-left's take on policy decisions.
maybe... just maybe... charges were dropped because the alleged rape didn't actually happen...?
I can imagine the shock this might cause in those who are conditioned to believe everything negative about the US and the US military in particular...
I wouldn't want silly things like facts to interfere with your ideology...
sigh
Dear Spencer and chaos: sorry to observe that your views are naive, but Japan and Germany had little choice accepting US occupation and any subsequent governments can't be taken seriously as truly independent. Britain is basically owned by the US, Churchill sold his nation in exchange for US assistance in WWII. Eisenhower issued a simple "get out or your currency is toilet paper" order to Anthony Eden and Britain skulked away from Suez. Master speaks, puppet acts. Right to the day of Poodle Blair.
Chaos, the name-calling identifies you as unfit for civilized discourse, but fits the MO of the sniveling "patriot" that we need to wrest from control in this country so that we can live peaceably with others, and devote our resources to our society rather than the adventures of the rich and imperious.
Wow, that's quite a statement.
"U.S. military personnel have been raping Okinawans for the last 60-plus years."
Why does this writer still have a job. If instead he had written:
"American black men have been raping women for 200+ years" would he still have a job? Such a sentence is just as disgusting as what the Atlantic allowed to printed on this page.
I was a marine stationed on Okinawa in the 70's and have returned twice since as a civilian. If you walk the streets at night to shop, socialize or simply to get somewhere, it's the loud, often drunk, packs of US military men that you have to take wide detours to avoid. They are a constant threat even to other Americands who don't want to get drunk with them. The only time I feel unsafe on Okinawa is around the Anerican military. We are doing them no favors by taking over thier streets.
Actually, penis, Japan had plenty of choice in accepting a U.S. occupation. They just made their decision in 1941.
Ditto Germany, who had a very clear choice between occupation by the US and Britain, or by Russia.
The ones who were fortunate enough to live in the West came out better off. The ones who lived under the Russians got brutalized, their women raped. By the millions.
Get some perspective, penis.
Oh, and you're unfit for civilized discourse, not for name calling, but simply by virtue of your rank stupidity.
Have a nice day.
+1 for Tim. Except I suspect the lack of sidesaddles means he didn't ride in on a horse.
Want to bet there haven't been more rapes of Okinawans by Japanese nationals than Americans?
"U.S. military personnel have been raping Okinawans for the last 60-plus years."
When are authors going to learn that any larger message is lost...swamped by unfair, undocumented, and unfounded claims like the one above.
What portion of the Okinawan's reaction is based on the well documented and proven Japanese xenophobia? The author doesn't address this reasonable question because he's only interested in stereotyping the US Military and citing Chalmers Johnson...
I've subscribed for more than 30 years. While in most articles the liberal mind set is evident, it is usually not so crassly expressed. A shameful moment for The Atlantic. However, in fairness, Robert D. Kaplan's articles, which fill many pages, portrays a realistic, and therefore much more postive, view of our troops, and the postive force the US is in the world.
I think it's possible to criticize the expansion of government without impugning the character of our troops, though maybe not without getting laughed off stage by the big-government right and left (e.g. see Ron Paul). I would like ALL troops back on our own shores, protecting our borders, but we are at war.
Without the military to protect our interests overseas, the precious entitlement and "soft diplomacy" programs that Gibney no doubt salivates over (and which are impoverishing our nation) would not be possible. These soldiers are our sons and daughters who serve because they love this country.
I see no criticism for the conduct of our enemies, the ones ripping peoples' faces off with piano wire and roasting peoples' children on the pages of the Atlantic. But, then, they are not susceptible to moral arguments and are more likely to respond to such criticism with VBIED's. By its decency, the U.S. military is an easy target for clueless liberals.
Had been thinking of renewing my recently expired subscription. Not now. This weird approach to attacking McCain and the Iraq policy is a casual ugliness, no less so because it does contain truth.
A couple of years ago an American serviceman was accused of rape on this island. I heard the accusation brought up on national public radio. The announcer then said, "Don't theses guys ever learn?" and went on talking as if the accused were guilty. This article is somewhat like that superior reporter. Confident, comfortable, and certain of his truth.
Okinawans are capable of false accusations because they know they'll be received sympathetically, etc. Gibney is blithe, unjust, and too characteristic of the chattering class.
To. Jason van Steenwyk. Your infantilism is your punishment. The Japanese didn't embrace occupation, they surrendered after two nukes were dropped on them. Germany was likewise overrun. They weren't allowed to choose their occupiers, that was decided by the US and the USSR. That's called history, you might try learning some.
Hey Seth,
I have sent 3 of my sons on Mormon missions and have one in the National Guard on his way to Afghanistan. The kind of treatment you received in Okinawa is not uncommon for Americans overseas in or out of uniform with or without a name tag. Your generalization of the military based on some rather unfounded presumption is offensive and unfair.
"Of course, not all journalists are pedophiles and wifebeaters, but..."
It's hard to pack two paragraphs with so much slander, malice, and historical illiteracy. If Mr. Gibson finds the Pax American too pricey for Okinawans, he might consider the cost of the Japanese belligerence which brought us there. If Mr. Gibson overgeneralizes that anomalous crimes perpetrated by members of the US military are features of the US military, may we borrow his fallacious reasoning to argue that his journalistic malpractice is a feature of the liberal media? It would be very interesting as well to compare the number of sociopaths employed by the media with those in the US military. I suspect that the media are much more indulgent toward its sociopaths when compared to the US military intolerance and rejection of sociopaths.
Germany was likewise overrun. They weren't allowed to choose their occupiers, that was decided by the US and the USSR.
And yet as Cake noted above, when the US recently contemplated moving ALL of their troops out of Germany, there was an uproar from the German people opposed to the idea. So you're saying that the Germans demanded that their occupation continue?
That's called history, you might try learning some.
And you might try learning some history that doesn't automatically begin with the assumption that the US is an evil, occupying empire. And please take Mr. Gibney along with you, he obviously needs it.
If you read the 1949 Time article linked in the article you will find a description of Okinawa as desperately poor. That is not the middle class Okinawa bustling with commerce you will find today. The reason for the improvement is the generosity of the American conquerors, whose occupation policies developed the vanquished Japanese into an economic superpower. There is no precedent for such generosity in human history, a fact that is evidently too big for Mr. Gibson to see when he absurdly argues that Okinawans are paying a price for an American empire there.
"Yes, the overwhelming majority of U.S. military personnel aren't sociopaths."
And yes, the overwhelming majority of U.S. journalists aren't a-holes either.
SoCal Dave
RE: when the US recently contemplated moving ALL of their troops out of Germany, there was an uproar from the German people opposed to the idea. So you're saying that the Germans demanded that their occupation continue?
When the Romans started removing their garrisons from parts of Europe, the locals who had become dependent on them mourned. Likewise, German merchants and others who gained a nice livelihood off the occupiers were upset that the US troops might leave. I'm sure there were localities in Soviet-occupied Europe that mourned the loss of revenue and special favors from their occupiers. Some French mourned the expulsion of the Nazis. Occupiers always spawn quislings and dependents. A very old story.
Re: evil, occupying empire. Your choice of words, not mine.
<>
Don't mess with a bull, son. You'll get the horns.
Though maybe you feel justice would have been better served had we left Tojo alone?
I suspect the residents of Nanking, Seoul and Manila might have wanted some input into that decision.
Rather, Japan ought to thank their lucky stars they got the occupiers they did, and that MacArthur and Truman so magnanimous and generous toward them.
Since Japan was dependent on conquered territories for food, those were gone in 1945.
We could have left them to rot and starve on their own islands.
<>
They absolutely were allowed to choose their occupiers. Their mistake was not exercising that choice by holding the line against the Soviets while surrenduring to Eisenhower in 1944, as soon as it was apparent that the Normandy landings were a success.
Before you suggest others learn history, you might take some steps to disabuse yourself of your own drooling ignorance.
Hmmm. The coding above was messed up. The first part was a reaction to denis's assertion that Japan did not embrace occupation - that they submitted after two nukes were dropped on them.
The second was a reaction to denis's claim that the Germans could not choose their occupiers.
According to a recent issue of National Geographic (November, 2005, I believe) people on Okinawa have about the highest life expectancies in the world; they are higher than those of Japan, Sweden, Norway, and the United States, and are equaled only by the inhabitants of Sardinia. The people also have lower levels of disease, and have three times as many centenerians, proportionately, as the U.S. does. Life expectancy is often cited as probably the best index of a society's general health and well being. How high, then, can the "price of americana" be?
To Jason van Steenwyk: foist, thanks for the laugh over the hypermacho bull and horns "warning," I'm just wet with terror!
Whether the Japanese ought to "thank their lucky stars" is not the issue, General MacArthur did dictate their constitution to them, that's certainly the act of an occupier, and it still shapes their political life. I'm not arguing that the Japanese attacks on China were good, just that we remain an occupier. Just to upset your preconceptions, I think the use of the nukes actually saved both American and Japanese lives. That's not the issue we're discussing, however.
FYI the Germans fought very hard against the Western armies, they did not just fold after Normandy, you may remember, for example, a little event called "The Bulge" and other acts of very stiff resistance. Their surrender came after Berlin fell. It's true that many Germans fled westward into the hands of the US and British because the Red Army was committing numerous atrocities, but again, that has no impact on the issue of whether we are an occupier.
What I'm really getting at is that we are wasting many resources maintaining our occupations, or pre-emptive pre-positionings or whatever you want to call them ("Empire" really doesn't fit) to achieve goals reachable and much lower cost through diplomacy.
Denis,
Your stupidity is truly boundless.
Mr. Gibney,
I don't know if I am more shocked by the sheer number of slanders squeezed into your short article; or by its lack of facts, explanation, or context.
You should be ashamed to writing this garbage. The Atlantic should be ashamed to have published it.
"Price of Empire?" Funny, I thought empires took lands.
The only lands we've ever demanded have been just enough to bury our dead.
I think Denis misses the larger point - the Germans and Japanese made their "occupation" choice in 1941 when they started a fight that they couldn't finish.
Also, as a soldier, I'm always relieved to know that most of us aren't "sociopaths." Whew - that's a load off of my mind!
Whoah...had to go back and check the cover. For a few pages there I thought I'd picked up a copy of Harper's by mistake.
If you want to show grass roots protests of Okinawans against US soldiers, then why did you post a photo of a small demonstration by Philippine leftists protesting a joint military exercize here?
Last time I looked, Okinawa was not part of the Philippines, and the US hasn't had bases here since the 1990's...
We're getting a bad reputation as a result of an intensely crime-prone portion of us.
Not all Americans are the same; not all of us are equally likely to rape.
Obviously the young are more likely than the old, and the male are overwhelmingly (to say the least) more likely than the female.
But differing rates of rape are not confined just to age and sex.
According to the FACTS, as shown by statistics from the US Department of Justice and the National Crime Victimization Survey (a massive, carefully demographically and racially weighted survey that is hundreds of times bigger than the minimum size necessary for statistical validity) ...
blacks are overwhelmingly more likely to commit rape than whites, especially interracial rape (150 times more likely, or 15,000 percent) and gang-rape (10,000 black-on-white vs. ZERO white-on-black between 2001 and 2003) - the kinds of rapes that are the most shocking to host victim communities and most damaging to our international image.
Truth is true and needs to get out for us to consider, we like the facts or not, the whether it is popular and safe to say so or not.
Look at the facts here and decide for yourself.
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Time to re-order American priorities and strategy, putting the emphasis on diplomacy and verifiable disarmament treaties rather than massive military outlays, overseas bases and occupation of nations such as Germany and Japan.
Yes, I said occupation -- neither nation is truly independent until large US military occupation forces leave. Russia evacuated its forces from Easter Europe, but we still occupy Germany, and its government can be reasonably described as a puppet government. Same goes for England. Oh yes, we are "invited" to stay, and when president Eisenhower ordered Britain to cease its Suez operation, they complied out of pure agreeability.
Think this is nuts? Let's contemplate several thousand Russian troops, tactical aircraft and naval forces stationed in the US. Russia declared a policy of preemptive strikes, if its vital interests are at stake. And when the Russians comment on our foreign policy or politics, how do the Americans feel about their "independence?"
Posted by denis | March 5, 2008 2:23 PM