Friday, 05.09.08
Against Obama-Clinton '08
Stan Honda/Getty Images
Against Unity
09 May 2008
Matt Yglesias is against a Clinton/Obama ticket.
Team of Rivals
4 May 2008
Andrew Sullivan says a unity ticket could undermine Obama's message.
The ultimate gesture
March 2008
After the Texas and Ohio primaries, Marc Ambinder explored the virtues of an Obama/Clinton ticket.
In an effort to halt intra-Democratic partisan bloodletting, some, including The Atlantic's own Andrew Sullivan, have suggested that Barack Obama run for president with Hillary Clinton as his running mate. And it seems that some in the Obama camp are taking the idea seriously, so seriously that senior Obama advisors are reportedly weighing whether or not to take on Clinton's campaign debt -- including, amusingly enough, Clinton's campaign debt to herself. Note that Clinton has consistently argued that Obama is not ready for the rigors of the presidency, and not ready to take on America's rivals on the world stage. He is too green, he is too trusting. If Obama does indeed acquiesce to the Clintonites' desperate pleas for some kind of face-saving gesture, he will prove Clinton right.
When Ronald Reagan selected George Bush as his running mate in 1980, he chose someone who had harshly criticized him on the campaign trail. But Bush never came close to making the kind of racially-tinged and lacerating attacks against Reagan that have become Clinton's stock in trade in her race against Obama. The idea that Obama's army of small donors would actually compensate the fabulously rich Clintons for launching such aggressive, hateful attacks is more galling still. Magnanimity is one thing. Spinelessness is another. Yes, there will be a place for Clinton loyalists in any Democratic administration, even the most craven Clinton loyalists. But surely there has to be some limit.
Barack Obama's appeal lies in his promise to move beyond the divisive politics of the past. Though this often appears to be an anodyne and content-free sentiment, one hopes there is at least something to it. A backroom deal with Clinton would make a mockery of Obama's language of hope and change. It would make Obama appear weak, and it would reward Clinton for running a campaign more vicious than anything Lee Atwater could have cooked up. More importantly, Obama would be choosing a fundamentally weak and unpopular running mate who has masked her marked executive inexperience through endless misrepresentation of her role in the Clinton White House -- a role that begins and ends with a healthcare debacle that would have gotten anyone other than a First Lady fired.
If Obama really does select Clinton as his running mate, he will have demonstrated that he doesn't have the capacity for judgment we expect from a president.
They'd work poorly togetherMichael Tomasky argues that Hillary Clinton "would demand, because of her stature, some kind of major portfolio. Her track record with major portfolios is other than encouraging." |
Why do it?Mark Schmitt finds that "the unity ticket, while not necessarily a bad idea, is fundamentally unnecessary." |
She's pushing itAndrew Malcolm traces unity ticket talk back to the Clinton campaign. |
Good for her, bad for DemsJames Poulos argues that "choosing Hillary to be Obama's vice-president would hurt the Democratic party." |
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Bill Clinton should come back as VP for Obama and advise him on these matters. A semi conservative democrat would ultimately be Obama's choice showing he is more moderate then McCain labels him to be. He needs either a good Texan or even a cross over republican.
Agreed........at one point it would had been great but now she and her hubby have blown it......now they don't even deserve it.......
Reihan Salam Your logic is flawed; Hillary does not have to save face to assume the VP slot. Obama needs Hillary because of her supporters. If you can't see that you should stop writing ridiculous articles. And, it's crap to say the Clintons have played the race card. Because Hillary is building her case by citing the voting demographics? You should go back to Journalism 101 or Logic 101, whatever.
Hillary has many ardent supporters and we will support her run either as an independent or in 2012.
Inviting Hillary Clinton to be V.P. is like inviting the fox into the hen house. With the Clintons ruthless ambition and jumbo sized egos, it wouldn't be long before they would completely dominate the political agenda.
Alee21:
Your post observes the same logic and rhetoric of the Clinton campaign. Didn't you go to kindergarten?
Claims like "you are ridiculous" and "what you say is crap" are not reasoned positions; they're just childish insults.
Obama will need the votes of many constituencies within the democratic party.
But those who will try to split the party vote by supporting a third party are hardly democrats. And this year it is not clear that the party needs them. These threats are merely a sign of weakness.
If you want to play a constructive role that will serve your own interests and values you might consider showing the same decorum and grace that Senator Obama has.
Dear Reihan Salam; You digress from the main point that most "Actual Americans" hate that back stabbing witch. (We hates, hates, hates it.) And ... we are not at all thrilled about that Demorat "shoe-shine-boy" leading the USA Military in a war. Although McCain is a closet-communist-liberal-demorat himself, at least he tries to keep it in the closet.
I couldn't agree more with this article -- I hope Obama continues to show wisdom and NOT pick Clinton as his running mate! If he does, it'll be LAST penny I'm donating to his campaign!
Right on.
The HillBillaries MUST be expunged from our political dialectic.
It's LONG overdue.
Time for the Dem party to put the Clinton Slime Circus behind it. Way behind.
Excellent insight, I agree with you completely.
Hillary Clinton has run a very vicious and dishonest campaign that has gone way beyond any Republican swift-boat attack past and present. If she was anyone else, she would have been castigated and tossed into the trash heap. Obama will do just fine without her.
I am looking forward to a very dynamic and exciting presidential race. In the end , Barack will be America's first African American President.
Dana
Every time I attempt to figure out how in the hell 58mm people voted for W in '04, posts such as John R's provide a helpful reminder. Reihan, spot on post.
I agree to an extent. There is no reason for the Obama campaign to compensate the Clinton campaign for any amount of money they over spent, or personally funded. That would be silly.
However, despite Hillary's negative tactics and devisive comments, it would be in the best interest of the party for a VP offer to come from Obama. Even if it was not accepted - which would say something of Hillary's priorities - it would be a gesture to the millions of people who support her and an affirmation of Obama's intent to mend a nation.
At Clinton supporters that would turn away from a legitimate Democratic nominee (be it voting for McCain or an Independent Hillary), with Barack and Hillary so similar on policy, I question your true motivations in your support of her. Hopefully this demographic of bitter Clintonites is a small one that would not substantially impact the general election.
racially tinged? Yes, this article is racially tinged.
hateful? yes, this article is hateful, too.
We want the dream team, man.
And we in Oregon would like to vote, thank you. Please let us vote? Why do you easterners get to make all the decisions? It's practically non-representative. Just let us have a vote and quit it with your divisive nonsense. I'll bet I've been in this party longer than any of you. I worked on Jesse's campaign. He never played the race card as much as Barack.
I'm going to vote for Barack, but I want to vote, period. Can't you easterners just wait until the rest of us get a chance for once? Good Lord!
Excellent analysis. The Clintons (for it would be plural) as VP would be disastrous for Obama, both in the General Election, and, in the unlikely event that he could carry the race with their baggage, for an Obama presidency.
There are other, far more legitimate, ways to win the votes of Clinton (whichever one) supporters. The Clintons are psychologically and morally incapable of serving in 2nd/3rd place.
Bear in mind, too, that the Clinton's divisive and demeaning campaign has greatly (and rightly) angered African Americans.
To offer her this place would, indeed, be weak. I don't think he'll do it. Too much to lose, nothing to gain. He has proven wisdom and judgement, and a wealth of good alternatives.
The Nightmare Team seems unlikely. Thank heavens.
I think that Barack choosing Hilly as his his running mate would be the biggest gaffe of all. Probably, it would have ben a good idea but for the fact that she went extremely negative in her campaigning. I would expect Obama to choose a person who constantly hit him below the belt, employing unnecessary dirty tactics. To hell with her and her so-called die-hard supporters. Barack Obama will surely triumph in the fall, with or without them.
If Obama picked Hillary, it would mark him as a hypocrite. He has spent the entire campaign saying that he represents the new politics and she represents the (bad) old way of doing things in Washington. To join with her now would be disasterous. He doesn't need her. She would hurt his campaign. ( And, after getting her hiney kicked in the election, I doubt that she wants anything to do with him. )
Stevie ol' pal, I couldn't agree more. I'm pretty sure she is currently scurrying around looking for a piece of information that would nail and destroy Obama even when it is quite obvious that she's lost out. It's either herself or no one else.
I don't think Obama would do this ... he has showed superior judgement throughout his political life and campaign. This would be an idiotic decision - she is not trustworthy enough and he'd always need to watch his back, she unfortunatley has her share of haters both pre and post- primary, and their styles are way too different. He needs to keep to his message of "changing the guard" and pick someone who has more experience outside of Washington and possibly some actual military experience. I also like the VA Governor a lot and think that could be a good match. He'll do fine without her - she brings more negatives than positives, so why go there. And "rescue" a debt-ridden campaign that has visciously and falsely attack him time and time again ... pleeeez!
AMEN!
I watched McCain and his Mommy on TV interview The rumor is that McCain is going to ask Mommy to be his VP. Will make a great team.
No, he should not pick her for his VP. The Clintons have way too much baggage and they have run a very destructive, race-baiting campaign against Obama. And I sure as hell wouldn't pay off her campaign debt. They still have 100 million dollars. Let them pay it off. I donate on a regular basis to Senator Obama's campaign, I have from the beginning, and I don't want my money going to the Clintons.
Anyone who thinks Hillary's campaign was any more 'vicious' than any other primary campaign ought to examine his or her psycho-sexual predisposition.
And Obama's character-assassinaton of Clinton was merely a necessary evil...that poor reluctant warrior. :(
The misogyny (even from other women) is daunting albeit not to shocking.
Sure Hillary's attacks were largely self-serving, but she's also done Obama a huge favour of putting it all out there before the Republicans have a go (and they will do the same and a lot worse in the fall).
Obama's won the Democratic nomination...too bad he can't be McCain in the general election (even though Hillary easily can), but his ego will never let him see that.
If Hillary (A) could beat McCain (B), but can't win the nomination from Obama (C) then it must follow that:
A > B and C > A then C > B
It's called "logic". I like to use it sometimes when people get overly dramatic.
Surely there are more variables in the equation "FrankBarren". I mean, we're dealing with Calculus here...not Grade 1 math.
Unfortunately, you're right. It is more complicated than that, but for the most part because of the lack of logic in the equations (people) we're dealing with.
A more appropriate equation could be:
Hillary > McCain, Hillary = Obama, therefore Obama > McCain.
The issue of the campaign tactics aside, Hillary and Barack are only marginally diffent on policy. Each would have their own difficulties in implementing them against republican resistence.
So who cares which one of them is the nominee? If the full support of the democratic party is behind them, we all get what we want. To do otherwise is insanity.
why do right wingers hate the clintons so much? their policies were mostly centrist or conservative democratic. dont tell me its because of the scandals. bush has more scandals and of a MUCH worse nature and that seems fine to them. the sainted ronald reagan subverted the constitution by selling weapons to iran and covertly propping up the contras in a back door deal for the hostages. thats impeachable, where was the outrage?maybe reagan was too senile but ghw bush certainly knew since he was one time head of cia. also dont forget the s&l scam and bailout thanks to NEIL BUSH. republicans have had there hands in more scandals (bad ones) over the past 35 years although W does take the cake. i truly dont understand where this clinton hate comes from. he led us at a time of prosperity. 1 in 5 americans still support bush so that tells me than these people are mentally unbalanced and would likely continue to support W if he raped his daughters. this whole administration should be impeached and prosecuted. we will probably go to war with iran before he leaves office and the us economy is being propped up on life support and will start causing real hardship soon enough. how do people not see/realize this.
Brilliant. Spot on. Thanks for putting this out there!
I am totally confused here?
My first question is why the uneducated hard working white people doesn't want to vote for the democratic nominee in November?
What's this uneducated hard working whites looking for?
Their future or America's future or Hillary's future?
When we are talking about recession, 8 years of mismanaged economy and country, hardship to the families who are loosing jobs and houses, raising inflation and a War which is sucking up 2 Trillion dollars from Americans, broken social security, broken medicare, no health coverage for lots of people, can't fill up your car gas tank with out getting into more debt
Why in the hell anybody don't want to vote for a person who want to solve these problems together rather than voting for the same principles who got us into this position?
Is anybody who are arguing that Hillary should get VP thinking about any of these issues rather than we just want her as VP who doesn't really care about the party or people rather than herself.
Really confused ??????????????
Hillary as an Independent in 2008, 2012?
oh please, it hurts too much to laugh. Look at how Sen. Lieberman lost his primary, and then as an INdepdent, beat the 'duly elected' Democrat candidate for another term. Lieberman is a man without a friend in the Senate. Repubs don't trust him (except to accept his votes) and Dems see him as a pariah.
No no, Hillary the Independent?
Interesting comparison to Bush I and Reagan. Of course we could mention to Obama that 70 days after being sworn in Reagan was shot by the younger brother of a business partner of savings and loan looter Neil Bush. Hinckley Sr. of course, a major contributor to Bush I political campaigns. See what a few years at CIA can do for your connections? If Obama has the brains that are attributed to him, he won't let either Clinton anywhere near his campaign. A pair of self serving connivers the world has rarely seen. After the hate and racial mongering of the Clintons, let them sit in upper deck seats at the convention with Edwards. Edwards who showed his true colors by NOT supporting Kerry in 2004 and effectively running a self serving presidential bid for 2008 from the VP in 2004 slot. The Clintons would do exactly the same.
Barack Obama was one of the top of his class Harvard Law Grads. He is nobody's fool. He would never allow a full-of-baggage, dirtbag like Hillary Clinton to be his Vice President or a Cabinet Member. I think he know that she is untrustworthy, and would do anything to sabatoge his administration. It may be true that his team is negotiating to pay off her campaign debt including the personal loan so that she can make a clean exit and save face. I believe that after the exit, She and Bill should be fed with long-handle-spoons as far as their involvement.
It is absurd to think Obama will choose Hillary as his running mate. But his campaign is brilliant in allowing empty-headed pundits to discuss vacuous issues while it goes about its serious business.
Well put. I firmly agree.
perfect characterization of the Clinton campaign. I'm all for a change in the party that runs the white house this November but the Clinton's campaign has been an affront to human decency, compounded by the fact that they are running against one of the most descent people in Washington (Mccain likely falls on that list too but lower than Obama).
And your less than forgiving language was more than appropriate. At some point, you just have to say to Hillary "primal pandering, and now race baiting, and all these occurrences occurred repeatedly.
In the end, i'm willing to give Hillary supporters a pass on their support to two people who show they have no conscious and no goal but to attain power.
I mean the American people, a little less than half the democratic base and more than half the republican base (lets not kid ourselves, Hillary's tactics would have most likely won her the nomination were this the Republican race), so essentially half or more probably more than half of this country, ARE TERRIBLE JUDGES OF CHARACTER. It seems the American people are willing to allow no verbal transgression against America but are more than content to allow every disquieting act against America and Americans if it is draped in this crap that passes for dialogue in the political process. Since when did words speak louder than actions?!
For those Clinton supporters who think that Clinton didn't run a racially-tinged campaign: the political fact of the matter is that a lot of Obama supporters do, especially African-Americans, and even a lot of moderate Republicans and independents who are the type who could cross over to vote for a Democrat do as well. Bill has gone from being hugely popular among the black community to persona non grata over a matter of months. His negatives are now higher than his positives because he lost black support. Hillary was already one of the most hated politicians in America before this campaign and she has only made herself more unpopular. She isn't popular among women in general, but only older non-college educated white women in states that have seen their steel mills disappear and at with the older members of Women's Studies departments at elite universities. Obama does need their votes, but it's doubtful that Clinton is the only VP pick that could bring them in. Also, when in all of her "35 Years of Experience" has Clinton ever done anything for her supporters? How does it feel to be so easily bought?
On a technical note, Bill is ineligible to be VP because he served two terms as president. Along the same lines, Carter could theoretically be VP because he only served one term.
There is no danger of Sen. Obama picking Sen. Clinton as running mate. There might be some wisdom in retiring the Clinton campaign debts in return for party unity. Of the VP candidates, Sen. Sherrod Brown of Ohio looks the strongest and most compatible. Gov. Sebelius also looks like a sensible choice.
Hillary would make a magnificent VP: just watch how well she thinks on her feet about important world affairs in debates. Obama would do well to have this woman available to advise him on a regular basis, as close to half the people who voted Democratic in this campaign agree.
The old "we hate Clinton" talk has been put to rest now, and with the two of them -- Barack and Hillary -- campaigning together, we can finally get away from having our elections decided by folks who feel free to talk "shoe-shine boy" trash.
It's not so much that he quite possibly can't win without her -- it's that his administration would be deeply enriched by having her at his side as an advisor and colleague.
I couldn't agree more with this piece. Obama-Clinton would be the end of the Democrat 2008 Dream. On which plateform would Obama run? 'Change' or 'experience'? Will Obama be perceived as a credible candidate when running under the change theme with the Clinton dynasty on board or will it make sens for him to run with the Clinton's experience as his asset. The old logic of Washington can't be reversed by resorting to the Clinton or the Bush dynasty. Those clintonites ready for McCain won't vote for Obama even if he brings all the Clinton & Monica back into the WH. Let's face it. The Clintons aren't the only white in this country. Why do you think the only white VP candidate able to keep racist white democrats within the party is HRC? Why is that? Why is that? If you want a white woman, let Obama pick up Nancy Pelosi as his VP.
Not until she discloses the Fraud case in California and testifies and is found not guilty!!!
Yeah, right, all Senator Obama needs is their continuing scandals, and what the heck is Bill going to be doing in the White House? They would drive the man completly crazy!!!! Not only do they have baggage they will not be able to restrain themselves. Ask the Gore's how they were. No wonder Tipper suffers from depression!!!
NO TO HILLARY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Good analysis. Clintons ticked off a lot of Black voters. To see Billary running for Veep would be revolting to a lot of Black voters as well as conscentious White voters.
Obamas candidacy is supposed to be about transcending the color divede, bringing America together, not divide it. By including the clintons, the very instruments of divisive demagogry, he would underimine the purpose of his campaign.
The Clintons, over the period of this campaign, have proved themselves to be the very caricatures of what is evil in America.
As a former enthusiastic supporter of Bill, I am now through with the Clinton-Bush dynasty. With Hillary as vp, Bill would certainly be in the way. How about Richardson or John Edwards?
You're absolutely right. I hope they're not seriously considering this. It would be a mistake on so many levels. Most importantly, it would prove that those of us who have been nodding our heads when Obama says we need to change politics in Washington are dupes. I supported Hillary in the very beginning but she quickly demonstrated she does not have the qualities I want in a leader. Obama does - at least, I will continue to believe he does until proven otherwise. Selecting Clinton as VP would definitely prove otherwise.
We need a clean break. And there's a much better option: KATHLEEN SIBELIUS.
Leaving aside every other consideration, Hillary's negatives are so bad that she'd be a liability, the one thing that might draw millions of disenchanted right-wingers to McCain.
Here are the facts:
When Hillary supporters (also read 'women') realize things like roe v wade and women as well as civil rights will be on the chopping block even the hardest of the hardcore supporters will come back into the fold or just not vote. Which is ok as McCain won't get those votes. Obama will also pull republican and independent votes.
Obama, even if he WANTED to couldn't take Hillary for the following reasons:
1.) Taking her would completely invalidate his position of changing washing as HillBillary ARE the institution.
2.) Her negatives are too high and the Clintons are so toxic Obama supporters won't vote if the Clintons are on the ticket
3.) If by some miracle the Clintons did get the VP slot the infighting of Obama against Bill and his ego as well as Hillary's backbiting wouldn't allow him to get anything done.
4.) With the Peter Paul case coming up that's a whole other can of worms that would nuke Obama's chances and that's pretty tough to do seeing that the republicans messed up so bad white folks will let a black man take a shot! lol! (that's a joke)
5.) The number of independents and republicans Obama pulls will make up for the hillary supporters that won't come around.
6.) If Hillary was VP i'd be worried about her pushing him down the stairs so she could be president.
Hillary is on fantasy island right now if she thinks Obama needs her. I say let her run herself into a financial hole and flame out. Then just show her the door.
I just don't see it happening. And those women who are shilling for Hillary JUST because she's a woman need to stop drinking the kool aid. Because Hillary is just using them TOO. Hillary and Clinton are only about themselves.
If I had a shred of belief that she was running for the betterment of the U.S. I might think a LITTLE differently. But she's played so dirty that she's radioactive. She thought she was entitled. She isn't. Like any other man. She gave her best shot and LOST.
Obama should pick a woman VP just to stick it to Hillary.
It’s not over! Clinton will use her remaining time to establish an Independent run for the Presidency.
She already has a misguided but loyal following.
Once she declares, she will gain all the financial backing she needs from her neo-lobby-cons.
That’s been her real nuclear option, all along.
You write...'Barack Obama's appeal lies in his promise to move beyond the divisive politics of the past...' Precisely - this is what he stands for, this is who he is, and this is in his DNA. Selecting Hillary as his vice-president would be contrary to ALL OF THE ABOVE. However, values such as forgiveness and redemption run deep in Obama...unfortunely, Hillary has not asked for forgiveness nor is she worthy of redeeming at this time. An ardent, articulate, authentic Hillary supporter who will work in concert with Obama to unite the party would be the preferred VEEP candidate. Sheila
I agree with this article, and with the previous commenter, Sheila. Surely, there is someone in the whole country who could attract the votes Hillary attracts, and is not Hillary herself. The Clintons have alienated a lot of people during this campaign, and I for one, have never been that happy with them (and I do mean THEM, for Hillary has not spoken out againstt any of Bill's policies).
Although Bill fancies himself the first black president, many of his policies were bad for poor people, who are often black, most especially the expansion of prisons, mandatory minimums for drug crimes, and reducing welfare and other social programs. I don't remember seeing any blacks in high ranking positions in his administration either.
I have also been insulted by being called names by Ms. Clinton because I voted for Barack Obama. "Hypnotized, elitist, out of touch, latte drinker" that I am, I would have a hard time warming to the idea of voting for her as my Vice President.
Kathleen Gilligan Sebelius
1) Anti-death penalty, pro gun control democrat re-elected in KANSAS with 57-40%
2) Catholic, post-feminist, soft-spoken meat and potatoes kind of gal. Pragmatic, policy-oriented and tough.
3) Balanced budgets, brought jobs to Kansas, no corruption anywhere with her name on.
4) Former Chair of the Democratic Governor's association.
Basically everything that Hillary is without the negatives.
Not only do I agree with the article and those wise comments who clearly understand that Obama would appear weak and hypocritical if he actually offered the vice-presidency, but I so wonder why everyone has missed the obvious. Why would Clinton want to be Vice-President which, although it has increased in its power, still is subject to the President's control as to how much the office-holder does besides preside over the Senate. The most obvious thing, and I hope Clinton lets her intellect make the decision, is to keep the power she has and will continue to let it accumulate as Senator from New York. Take a cue from Ted Kennedy--if you lose, bow out gracefully and return to the place where you can do the most good!
Over at DailyKos they clearly state:
Taking on Clintons campaign debt would be illegal. The Obama campaign would be contributing to the Clinton campaign, and going VASTLY beyond the allowed limit. There goes that theory.
I truly pray he doesn't choose Hillary Clinton as his running mate. That would be a terrible mistake. For one thing, the McCain camp will pick up on every negative thing she said in her attacks against Barack and play them over and over and over ... and I can think of a dozen off the top of my head. If his VP thinks all these things about him, well...
He will also have to contend with Bill Clinton's influence. No, no, no Barack, don't do it. That's just a couple of reasons he should not choose her for VP. There are many.
As one pundit put it, he'll have to get himself a food taster.
Obama-Clinton ticket would have swing state difficulties. I agree whole hardily. But that is minor compared to killing his message. See the Atlantic:
"If Obama really does select Clinton as his running mate, he will have demonstrated that he doesn't have the capacity for judgment we expect from a president."
I refused the latest Obama solicitation for contributions saying that I would not give any more if Sen. Clinton was VP or Obama paid off the two multimillionaires (Penn and the Clintons).
I think just talking about the possibility is hurting Obama's message. I think Obama's comment about a payoff is a bigger negative than his bitter comment, certainly to his supporters and probably in the general election too.
Despite the hateful nature of some of these comments (unbecoming of the posters and not in the "raise the bar" spirit and practice of Obama, I, too, believe that the Obama campaign should NOT reward the campaign strategy and behavior of Clinton, one that can only aide McCain (with Rove's adept help) in the next stage of the campaign.
1) Why do the more educated prefer Obama? The more educated might have an educated reason.
2) Zinni for VP.
THIS POST IS TO THAT SAD IDIOT RACIST NAMED JOHN R. WHO POSTED ON HERE ON 5/9/08.. MOTHER-F..ER, DO YOU EVEN OWN A PAIR OF SHOES FOR BARACK OBAMA TO SHINE?
Obama should not pick Clinton as VP. She had her chance and the opportunity has passed for her. Sebelius or Edwards makes a lot more sense to me ...
You nailed it.
In fact, making Hillary and Bill Clinton pay dearly--very dearly--for their nefarious and craven campaign would show even better judgment from the Obama camp. Hit the Clintons. Hurt them. Make them swallow their pride and their losses. Make them choke. A stern message needs to be sent to all future, would-be ego-maniacs who would try to follow the Clinton path, to the Nomination. Run the Harold Ickes, the Howard Wolfsons, and the Lanny Davises out of town backwards on trotting jackasses.
Amen.
If Obama wins this nomination, I hope he has the guts to resist the insane calls for an Obama/Clinton ticket. If Obama chooses Hillary, it will be one of the greatest acts of political cowardice and will prove that he has the backbone of a jellyfish. Hillary’s campaign is a graduate seminar on the politics of personal destruction. She’s pulled out all the stops to assassinate Obama’s character. Hillary’s fear-mongering and race-baiting has redefined gutter politics. Her supporters have made disgusting remarks regarding Obama’s masculinity and she hasn’t denounced or rejected them. Obama has denounced personal attacks against her and his supporters have apologized for crossing the line. If Obama chooses Hillary, he validates and legitimizes all her venomous attacks on his character, integrity, and manhood. Republicans may ask if Obama couldn’t stand up to Hillary, how will he stand up to Al Qaeda? I’d rather see Obama lose honorably without Hillary on the ticket, than win dishonorably with Hillary on the ticket.
Do you want to know what Hillary will be like as VP? Look at the campaign she ran.
I for one, hope Obama looks elsewhere to fill the ticket.
Obama/Clinton will be the dream ticket for the Republican foe. The strategy for the Republicans will be to show the gaps between Obama and Clinton and the dysfunction that will certainly be part of the Obama/H Clinton/B Clinton administration.
Secondly, I really don't think that Ms. Clinton will want to be sandwiched between a sitting president and a former president.
Thirdly, Bill will not share the limelight
The fox in the hen house is the right analogy. I think that Obama should make the gracious and thoughtful moves of looking like they are "very seriously" looking at Hill-Bill for the VP and then let time and circumstances move them away from that decision to a more reasoned and intelligent decision on the VP. He doesn't want to alienate her supporters so you have to give them time. I hope to god, however, that he doesn't really consider her for the VP slot. That would not be the right choice imho.
to all obama supporters great news
Michell Obama has picked up tow names for V>P see what you all think and please let her know whom do you like.
1- OBAMA/ DON KING ONLY IN AMERICA 2- OBAMA/ FLAVER FLAV
CHANGE WE NEED
No way. There is no way that the top Obama advisers are pulling for her. They're just wooing her voters by saying so. Apart from the wonks, it's actually the strategy team in the Obama camp who will be in charge of the ideas once he gets there. They always are. And they despise Clinton, and would see her, and Bill, as policy obstacles. Imagine Bill stepping in front of a camera and giving another ridiculous performance the first time he disagrees with an Obama administration's decision. The Clintons are through, get over it.
How about Claire McCaskill? Mizzou would be a great pick-up.
The problem today is that we donot have a candidate from either party who can provide the leadership to the country when we have a 2 wars going on and a 3rd war round the corner and the complex financial crisis which we may experience in a year or two.
Even though Obama is a very likable candidate and leads in all numbers,it is impossible to have his say in the future administration since he has to keep all the senior senators like Ted Kennedy happy who will be powerful and he has to appease his own team since he doesnot have enough technical knowledge and situation will be similar to President Bush. E.g. Obama didnot know who will be the future president of Russia when Tim asked a question and he immediately allowed Hillary to answer first. My views will be same eventhough Obama gets a miraculous features of Micheal Jackson.
Hillary has a good experience and with Bill on the side, she will not take any nonsense from advisers or secretaries but she has to seriously stop childish stuff like snipper fire or Gas tax holiday etc. She needs to learn to ask tough questions and should have a plan to tackle Neocons or similar groups in the Democratic party. If she is successfull, then she will be an outstanding president. My views will remain same if Hillary was a Man. I think the country can have an excellent president who is not male and match with Mrs. Thatcher.
McCain will be a great president if he is atleast 10 years younger, keeps cool and can reduce his closeness to the necons. I really respect this man for his discipline and consistency eventhough he has problems within his party for opposing certain policies earlier and supporting them in the later stage. I think he is a careful person who has enough experience to tackle the complex issues except future Financial crisis. But atleast he can employ the best and dumest minds to tackle that.
In the end I am still confused like many americans.
Why is it that Clinton supporters are being called small-minded and petty, when it seems to be Obama supporters who are throwing a tantrum over Hillary Clinton being anywhere near their Golden Boy, despite the rifts it might heal and the votes it might bring in. I'm not even saying it's the best idea, just the way so many of you are reacting to it is disgusting. If Hillary has to quit for the good of the party, you all should be able to suck it up for the good of the party.
It is obvious that Senator Clinton has nearly as much support as Senator Obama. To say she would be weak an unpopular as a running mate is simply wrong. Her support is strong in almost all of the swing states. A president has not been elected without the support of at least two out of the states of Florida, Pennsylvania, and Ohio. Doesn't she have all 3? Seems to me that kind of support would benefit any ticket.
CHANGE means CHANGE
Change from Bush/Cheney and from Clinton 8 previous years.
Change from the previous 16 years.
Let Hillary go back to the Senate.
CHANGE....CHANGE....CHANGE....CHANGE....CHANGE
Many Hillary supporters are talking about writing her in when we vote in November if she doesn't get the nomination. If this happens we will have another Republican President, so it seems to me that having her as a running mate would be a wise choice. I think it is mistake to over look how strong her supporters believe in her. I hope if he doesnt choose her as a running mate her supporters think long and hard about what will happen if they turn their backs on Obama.
Hillary Clinton had to run a touch campaign against Obama--for more than one reason. The obvious one, of course, to win the nomination to the Presidency, but also to stretch and challenge Obama. It's true that he doesn't have the experience of a long and arduous campaign where your opponent is going for everything but blood.
Clinton gave Obama a test run for the real deal by going the distance during the primaries and not giving in or giving up.
When the Republicans get ahold of Obama, they're going to do what Hillary did AND MUCH MORE...and he needs the experience to see what its like.
She did this country, the Democratic Party and Obama a favor by continuing to fight him until the end.
Otherwise, he'd go from a short and easy experience directly to John McCain.
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So, Bill would be the 1st man?
Posted by Thor | May 9, 2008 6:43 PM